Go read my message. You say you could only find that. I have shown you
another.
Do you always ignore new information?
Also go through the other links that Doug provided and answer the
objections that I gave you about your previous comments about Jesus claims
that he said he was God.
For a person to just spout out information and not be willing to discuss it
and be closed minded about the new information is sheer ignorant.
If you are ignorant, perhaps the time has come to stop being so.
73
DR
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
I have already responded.
I told you why I did not bother to look at the other 5 links, twice.
As for contemporarianous references to Jesus I refer you to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
An overwhelming majority of New Testament
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament> scholars and Near East
historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation,
find that the historicity of Jesus *is more probable than not,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#cite_note-15> although
they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the
accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the
gospels.*
The only contemporarianous "proof" I was able to find was this:
Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls
*"probably
the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."*
Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire
that had destroyed Rome in *A.D. 64*, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:
*Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations,
called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its
origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the
hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus
checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first
source of the evil, but even in Rome....*
<http://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources#_edn5>
contemporarianous NOT. There are Roman records of every shekel collected
in taxes, but nothing about Jesus.
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 21, 2016 2:42 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
No, Ron.
Please respond to the emails.
You said something, people responded with a challenge.
You made statements that have been challenged, you haven't responded,
others are saying you've not been telling the truth.
I say you've been caught in a lie several times over.
No dodging by pivoting. Answer the challenges.
Either that or admit you were wrong about these subjects.
Easy.
Are you a man who can correct his actions?
73
DR
On Dec 20, 2016 9:02 PM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Whatever you say.
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 20, 2016 7:26 PM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
RR,
So you have looked at one link. Look at the remaining five links.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat yourself because you PIVOT
like a politician.
Here it is:
You said (before) that there was no contemporarianous recording of the
historical Jesus.
I gave you the information and cited quotation from Flavius Josephus -
who is contempory in the historical sense, he wrote after the fact but even
with modern news, guess what? - it's ALL after the fact. That is what news
is. I grant you that if Jesus was crucified today it would be live at
five, film at eleven.
The other thing was you said: Jesus never claimed he was God.
I gave you the quotes.
You've been directly questioned on this about ten times now and you
haven't answered any of mine, you've pivoted on each one.
You were WRONG, RR.
You often are wrong.
You do not look at criticism, learn from it, and reeducate yourself.
You're stuck in being wrong.
73
DR
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
DR,
Stan said he did not believe me when I said that I found the book
online. I told him that he needed to do was ask me for the link, he didn't
need to call me a liar. His age has nothing to do with it.
As for Doug Losty's 6 links, I examined the first one, which at first
glance appeared to be the most convincing, but found it to be bogus and I
explained why. I have seen enough of these articles to know they are all
the same. The only proof they offer, if they offer any proof at all, are
eyewitness testimony by people whose names are never mentioned.
It would be very easy to prove there really are mass graves, if they
contained Jews, and even the cause of death by forensic and DNA testing.
But they say they cannot do this because Jewish law prohibits disturbing a
grave. They won't even allow a non-Jew to do this.
To reiterate, the first link was about a television show produced in
2014 where they dug up some bones in a places that are claimed to be mass
graves of Jews. They dug 3 shallow (6 inch deep?) trenches and found a few
bones which they promptly buried again. No forensic or DNA tests were
performed, nor any other tests.
In 1999 the area where these mass graves are supposedly located was
scanned with Ground Penetrating Radar and they reported finding no mass
graves. Another GPR scan was performed in 2010, and once again no mass
graves were found, only some bones and ashes near the surface where the
2014 TV show found the bones.
As far as I know there are no writings about Christ appeared until after
his death.
"The earliest to survive are the letters of Saint Paul (50–60 C.E.) and
the Gospel according to Mark (65–70 C.E.). These were followed around 80–90
C.E. by the longer Gospels of Matthew and Luke (the latter accompanied by
the Acts of the Apostles), along with a lost source that scholars call "Q,"
which contained sayings and parables of Jesus and some episodes from his
life. Saint John's Gospel appeared around 85–95 C.E., as did the letters of
James, Peter, and John; Paul's letter to the Hebrews; and the Revelation of
Saint John (the Apocalypse). "
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Dec 20, 2016 5:13 PM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: Mein Kampf
Stan,
I notice that RR snarled at you because you, a 91 year old senior and
veteran could not find the book, but no one has but reminded RR to respond
to Doug Losty's six links or my message where I refute his statement that
there was no contemporary history of Jesus who called himself the Christ,
and that Jesus had never claimed to be God, he did and I have cited just
one place in the Bible that is very convincing because it was the reason
the Sanhedrin said he had blasphemed and that the penalty under Jewish law
was death, but as you know, they were under Roman law.
He hasn't responded to any of that, he just lashes out at you.
73
DR
