[SI-LIST] Re: Using W-element in HSPICE
- From: Patrick_Carrier@xxxxxxxx
- To: whizplayer@xxxxxxxxx, Patrick_Carrier@xxxxxxxx,Michael_Greim@xxxxxxxx, si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:33:03 -0500
I do not know those formulas.
I think odd-mode impedance is a function of twice the single-ended impedance
minus twice Z12 or something like that. So you'd have to get your impedance
numbers for the above formula from using your Rs, Ls, Gs, and Cs.
Honestly I don't know. Perhaps someone on the SI-lIST could lend some
knowledge.... ;-)
--Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patel [mailto:whizplayer@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:24 PM
To: Patrick_Carrier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Michael_Greim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] Re: Using W-element in HSPICE
Hi! PAtrick, Thanks for the reply. Michael did correct
the statements for the broadside & edge coupled
structure.
So, if I wanted the RLGC for differential from the
extracted RLGC , you mentioned it would require some
math. Are there some analyitical formulas that apply
or is it something I have to write in say matlab.
Thanks
Bob
--- Patrick_Carrier@xxxxxxxx wrote:
> Bob--
> Your RLGC information from the W-element will be
> extracted regardless of
> what stimulus you apply to it. In other words, the
> RLGC information is
> strictly a function of geometry and material
> properties (with the exception
> of your frequency-dependent losses, which have a
> calculated value that is
> multiplied by a frequency).
>
> So, to answer your question, the stimulus does NOT
> matter for what goes into
> your .RLGC file, if you have selected that option in
> the field solver
> definition to extract R,L,G, and C parameters.
>
> However, if you are using the W-element right in
> your deck, you need to
> apply a negative stimulus on one side and a positive
> one on the other side.
> This will give you the proper output waveform, but
> will not effect the
> numbers that go into the .RLGC file, if you are
> creating one.
>
> I know APSIM RLGC puts out a differential impedance
> for the pair, and you
> can get that from the W-element as well but you need
> to do quite a bit of
> math with the outputted RLGCs...
>
> Hope this helps.
> And since your traces are on the same layer
> (coplanar), I believe they are
> considered edge-coupled. Broadside-coupled traces
> sit above one another on
> different layers, with their broad sides facing one
> another.
>
> --Pat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Patel [mailto:whizplayer@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 4:50 PM
> To: Michael_Greim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Using W-element in HSPICE
>
>
>
> Hi! On item 3 I meant broadside coupled traces.
> Thanks
> Bob
> --- Michael_Greim@xxxxxxxx wrote:
> > On item three that sure looks edge coupled
> > to me. Is that what you meant?
> >
> > MG
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Patel [mailto:whizplayer@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 4:15 PM
> > To: si_list
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Using W-element in HSPICE
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi!
> > I had looked up the past archives on this subject
> > pertaining to the definition of differential
> pairs.
> > I
> > had additional questions as to
> > 1)if I am extracting the RLGC for a diff pair do I
> > apply the stimulus to one node only. And if YES
> then
> > shouldn't I excite both the nodes differentially
> > i.e.
> > positive going to one node and inverting to the
> > other.
> > 2)Also when defining the stimulus does the
> stimulus
> > have to represent the source of the frequency of
> > interest i.e. the RLGC will be extracted based on
> > the
> > pulse source. e.g. at 2.5GHz the pulse source is
> > (3.3
> > 0 100ps 50p 50p 150p 400p)
> > 3)When defining the model statement for the
> > broadside
> > coupled pair
> > + CONDUCTOR = ( MATERIAL=copper, SHAPE=rect,
> > ORIGIN=(0, 7.2mil) )
> > + CONDUCTOR = ( MATERIAL=copper, SHAPE=rect,
> > ORIGIN=(17mil, 7.2mil
> > i.e. the traces are 6mil above the gnd plane and
> are
> > separated by 11mil & are 1.2mil thick. Is this
> > correct?
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Bob
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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