[SI-LIST] Re: Resonant Modes
- From: xuzhengrong <xuzhengrong@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:26:36 +0800
Steve,
I'm very glad to receive your reply and have learnt a lot from your =
papers
issued on DesignCon.
I know increasing ESR and decreasing inductance can lower Qs which
decreases the resonance and makes the impedance smooth.
What I meant is that, for the same plane pair structure with the same
capacitors, when I set the number of modes and simulate, I will get =
datas
of different mode such as Mode 1, Mode2 and so on.
According to the figure of the result, it seems that Mode 1 shows the
resonance from horizontal angle, Mode 2 from vertical angle, Mode 3 =
from
diagonal angle, etc. Different mode analyzes the resonance from =
different
angle.
As my last mail said, every mode has a certain frequency and Q =
increases
with the number of modes and corresponding frequency in term of the =
result.
Mode 1 is the lowest frequency among all. Therefore, with the =
increasement
of the number of modes, more resonant frequency will appear.
You mean, I only pay attention to the bandwidth of significant signal =
which
may excite the resonance. Ok, I see.
My following question is, why do Qs increase with the number of modes =
and
frequency for the same cavity and PDN?
Which imformation will I obtain from Qs?=20
For Q indicates the ratio of storage and loss, does it mean larger =
number
of Mode with higher resonant frequency will let more energy pass?
Best Regards
Zhengrong Xu
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx =
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
=B4=FA=B1=ED steve weir
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2007=C4=EA8=D4=C229=C8=D5 14:02
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: xuzhengrong@xxxxxxxxxx
=B3=AD=CB=CD: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [SI-LIST] Re: Resonant Modes
Zhengrong,
Pay attention to the resonances that are within the bandwidth of =
significant
signal energy from your loads and/or injected into your return path.
Q depends on the capacitors and materials you use for your PCB. Low =
mounted
inductance capacitors such as X2Ys exhibit lower Qs than capacitors with
higher mounted inductances and similar ESRs.
Cavities that are thinner and/or have higher tangent losses exhibit =
lower Qs
than do thicker cavities and/or cavities with lower tangent loss.
At the end of the day you are always fighting inductance in your =
capacitors
and interconnect. You can manipulate modes and Q by manipulating your
capacitors and cavity geometries.
Steve.
xuzhengrong wrote:
> Oh, I am so sorry for that.=3D20
> I have sent another email in text format, but i don't know why it =3D =
> hasn't been sent to all yet.
> When I sent to si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, i received several autoreplies =
> =3D for their out of office.=3D20 So I sent both to =
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
> and =3D si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx this time.
> I'm new here and very glad to join in.=3D20 Could you tell me the=20
> relationship between si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and=20
> si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx? When i want to join the discussion,=20
> which =3D mail address will i send to?
>
> Thank you for your reminder with best regards.=3D20 My question is=20
> listed as follows.
>
>
> Hi all,
> I am new in using EM tools to analyze the plane pairs' resonance.
> After inputing the number of modes and computing, the results have =3D =
> several values including freqency and Q. Every mode has a certain=20
> frequency and =3D Q increases with the number of modes.=3D20 =3D20 =
Which=20
> mode should i pay most attention to?
> Why does Q value increase with the number of modes and frequency?
> How to analysze with these data and which information can i obtain=20
> from =3D it?
> =3D20
> Appreciate any idea about that.
> =3D20
> Best Regards
> Zhengrong Xu
>
>
>
> -----=3DD3=3DCA=3DBC=3DFE=3DD4=3DAD=3DBC=3DFE-----
> =3DB7=3DA2=3DBC=3DFE=3DC8=3DCB: olaney@xxxxxxxx =
[mailto:olaney@xxxxxxxx]=3D20
> =3DB7=3DA2=3DCB=3DCD=3DCA=3DB1=3DBC=3DE4: =
2007=3DC4=3DEA8=3DD4=3DC229=3DC8=3DD5 12:00
> =3DCA=3DD5=3DBC=3DFE=3DC8=3DCB: xuzhengrong@xxxxxxxxxx
> =3DD6=3DF7=3DCC=3DE2: Re: [SI-LIST] Resonant Modes
>
> Just so you know what I actually received...
> I think jpg files need to be sent as attachments.
>
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:02:59 +0800 xuzhengrong =
<xuzhengrong@xxxxxxxxxx>
> writes:
> =20
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D3Dgb2312
>> Content-transfer-encoding: base64
>>
>> =20
> =
SGkgYWxsLA0KSSBhbSBuZXcgaW4gdXNpbmcgRU0gdG9vbHMgdG8gYW5hbHl6ZSB0aGUgcGxhb=
=3D
>
> mUg
> =20
> =
cGFpcnMnIHJlc29uYW5jZS4NCkFmdGVyIGlucHV0aW5nIHRoZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgbW9kZXMgY=
=3D
>
> W5k
> =20
> =
IGNvbXB1dGluZywgdGhlIHJlc3VsdHMgaGF2ZSBzZXZlcmFsDQp2YWx1ZXMgaW5jbHVkaW5nI=
=3D
>
> GZy
> =20
> =
ZXFlbmN5IGFuZCBRLiBFdmVyeSBtb2RlIGhhcyBhIGNlcnRhaW4gZnJlcXVlbmN5IGFuZCBRD=
=3D
>
> Qpp
> =20
> =
bmNyZWFzZXMgd2l0aCB0aGUgbnVtYmVyIG9mIG1vZGVzLiANCiANCldoaWNoIG1vZGUgc2hvd=
=3D
>
> Wxk
> =20
> =
IGkgcGF5IG1vc3QgYXR0ZW50aW9uIHRvPw0KV2h5IGRvZXMgUSB2YWx1ZSBpbmNyZWFzZSB3a=
=3D
>
> XRo
> =20
> =
IHRoZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgbW9kZXMgYW5kIGZyZXF1ZW5jeT8NCkhvdyB0byBhbmFseXN6ZSB3a=
=3D
>
> XRo
> =20
> =
IHRoZXNlIGRhdGEgYW5kIHdoaWNoIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGNhbiBpIG9idGFpbiBmcm9tIGl0P=
=3D
>
> w0K
> =20
> =
IA0KQXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBhbnkgaWRlYSBhYm91dCB0aGF0Lg0KIA0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzDQpaa=
=3D
>
> GVu
> =20
> =
Z3JvbmcgWHUNCiANCg0Ku6rOqry8yvXT0M/euavLviBodWF3ZWlfbG9nbyANCg0KDQq12Na3o=
=3D
>
> 7rJ
> =20
> =
7tvaytDB+rjax/jb4Mzvu6rOqrv5tdgg08qx4KO6NTE4MTI5DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmh1YXdl
> 7tvaytDB+a
> S5j
> =20
> =
b20NCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tL=
=3D
>
> S0t
> =20
> =
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tL=
=3D
>
> S0t
> =20
> =
LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0Ksb7Tyrz+vLDG5Li9vP66rNPQu6rOqrmry761
> LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0Ksb7Tyrz+x
> LGj
> =20
> =
w9zQxc+io6y99s/e09q3osvNuPjJz8PmtdjWt9bQwdCz9rXEuPbIy7vyyLoNCtfpoaO9+w0K
> w9zQxc+1
> rnI
> =20
> =
zrrOxuTL+8jL0tTIzrrO0M7Kvcq508OjqLD8wKi1q7K7z97T2sirsr+78rK/t9a12NC5wrah
> zrrOxuTL+8jL0tTIzrrO0M7Kvcq508OjqLD8wKi1q7K7z97T2sirsr+o
> ri0
> =20
> =
1sahorvyyaK3oqOpsb7Tyg0KvP7W0A0KtcTQxc+ioaPI57n7xPq07crVwcuxvtPKvP6jrMfr
> 1sahorvyyaK3oqOpsb7Tyg0KvP7W0A0KtcTQxc+x
> PrB
> =20
> =
ory0tee7sLvy08q8/s2o1qq3orz+yMuyosm+s/2xvtPKvP6joQ0KVGhpcyBlLW1haWwgYW5kI=
=3D
>
> Gl0
> =20
> =
cyBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBmcm9tDQpIV=
=3D
>
> UFX
> =20
> =
RUksIHdoaWNoIA0KaXMgaW50ZW5kZWQgb25seSBmb3IgdGhlIHBlcnNvbiBvciBlbnRpdHkgd=
=3D
>
> 2hv
> =20
> =
c2UgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBsaXN0ZWQgYWJvdmUuIEFueQ0KdXNlIG9mIHRoZSANCmluZm9ybWF0a=
=3D
>
> W9u
> =20
> =
IGNvbnRhaW5lZCBoZXJlaW4gaW4gYW55IHdheSAoaW5jbHVkaW5nLCBidXQgbm90IGxpbWl0Z=
=3D
>
> WQg
> =20
> =
dG8sDQp0b3RhbCBvciBwYXJ0aWFsIA0KZGlzY2xvc3VyZSwgcmVwcm9kdWN0aW9uLCBvciBka=
=3D
>
> XNz
> =20
>> W4gdGhlDQppbnRlbmRlZCANCnJlY2lwaWVu
>>
>> =20
> =
dChzKSBpcyBwcm9oaWJpdGVkLiBJZiB5b3UgcmVjZWl2ZSB0aGlzIGUtbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvc=
=3D
>
> iwg
> =20
> =
cGxlYXNlDQpub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBieSANCnBob25lIG9yIGVtYWlsIGltbWVkaWF0Z=
=3D
>
> Wx5
> =20
>> IGFuZCBkZWxldGUgaXQhDQoNCiANCg=3D3D=3D3D
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
>> -- Type: image/jpeg
>> -- File: outlook_huawei_logo_cn.jpg
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from si-list:
>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>> =3D20
>> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>> =3D20
>> For help:
>> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> List technical documents are available at:
>> http://www.si-list.net
>> =3D20
>> List archives are viewable at: =3D20
>> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>> or at our remote archives:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
>> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> =3D20
>> =20
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from si-list:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
> or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
> For help:
> si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>
> List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.net
>
> List archives are viewable at: =20
> //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
> or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
> Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> =20
>
>
>
> =20
--=20
Steve Weir
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC=20
121 North River Drive=20
Narragansett, RI 02882=20
California office
(408) 884-3985 Business
(707) 780-1951 Fax
Main office
(401) 284-1827 Business=20
(401) 284-1840 Fax=20
Oregon office
(503) 430-1065 Business
(503) 430-1285 Fax
http://www.teraspeed.com
This e-mail contains proprietary and confidential intellectual property =
of
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
--------------------------
Teraspeed(R) is the registered service mark of Teraspeed Consulting =
Group
LLC
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.net
List archives are viewable at: =20
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
//www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.net
List archives are viewable at:
//www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
Other related posts:
