[SI-LIST] Fwd: Re: Question on ICM_MLM IBIS modeling
- From: Xin Wu <xwu_umd@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
--- Xin Wu <xwu_umd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Xin Wu <xwu_umd@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Question on ICM_MLM IBIS
> modeling
> To: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi Scott,
> Thank you for your clarification.
> For sure, numerically you can setup some source with
> respect to infinity. However, at high frequency,
> what
> makes this change is that the proximity effects
> matters and we won't be able to get the exact
> results
> when we define such kind of source, as the voltage
> potential at the virtual ground varies.
> More specifically, I have some problem like this: if
> I
> have a 4 layer package and I want extract it's
> parasitic model, how could I set-up the ports in a
> field-solver?
>
> - - - - S
> ____________G
> ____________V
> ------- Pad
> The input side and the output side are separate by
> solid planes. Therefore, while defining ports on
> input/output sides, we have to drop the ports
> reference to different planes. Physically, there is
> a
> local ground well-defined in package design.
> However,
> there is nothing can guarantee the input/output
> reference plane to have the same potential. In
> partial
> inductance concept, at least, you cannot come up
> with
> the right loop if you change your reference. Either
> refering to a defined reference plane or an ideal
> ground is the only choice, per my understanding.
> Any deeper thoughts?
> Thanks,
> -Xin
>
> --- Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Xin
> >
> > My apologies. In my lack of coffee haze I saw ICM
> > and read ICX.
> >
> > ICM matrices are defined in the same way the
> Maxwell
> > Matrices are
> > defined. A MOM, BEM of FEM field solver will
> > extract the necessary
> > partial inductance matrices. This can be done
> > without any particular
> > piece of metal being called "ground". In this
> case,
> > the infinite
> > boundary of the universe becomes the reference.
> For
> > 2D structures you
> > can use any of the myriad number of 2D solvers to
> > produce these
> > matrices. For a package, you will need to use a
> 3D
> > solver such as those
> > made by Ansoft and Optimial.
> >
> > Please note that inductance matrices as extracted
> in
> > this manner are not
> > unique. It is the self and mutual loop
> inductances
> > that are unique as
> > is described by Brian Young in his book "Digital
> > Signal Integrity,
> > Modeling and Simulation." His is one of the best
> > books on the subject.
> > The other book that covers this topic is Clayton
> > Paul's book "Analysis
> > of Multi Conductor Transmission Lines" Both of
> > these books talk about
> > the theoritical and practical application of
> partial
> > inductance matrices.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > scott
> >
> > Xin Wu wrote:
> >
> > >Hi there,
> > >I have a question about ICM_MLM model when
> > correlate
> > >the model with field solver.
> > >Reading the ICM-1.0, for models of type MLM,
> sparse
> > >inductance matrix, based on partial inductance
> > >concept, and sparse capacitance matrix will be
> > >generated for circuit simulation.
> > >My question is: the partial inductance concept is
> > >based on unknown current loop, while using EM
> field
> > >solver, a source has to be defined between the
> I/O
> > and
> > >GND. In this case, how could we correlate the EM
> > >solution with the MLM model?
> > >One step further, if I want to simulate a GND net
> > or a
> > >VCC net in a multi-layer chip package, which has
> > >several pins connected solid planes, how can I
> run
> > a
> > >simulation if I want to retrieve the partial
> > >inductance of the GND net or the VCC net
> > separately?
> > >Thanks for any thoughtful inputs.
> > >-Xin
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Xin Wu, Ph.D
> > >Research Staff Engineer
> > >Etenna Corp.
> > >Laurel, MD 20783
> > >Phone: (240) 4564145 Fax: (240) 4560655
> > >http://www.wam.umd.edu/~xwu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________
> > >Do you Yahoo!?
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> >
>
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> >
> > --
> > Scott McMorrow
> > Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
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>
>
> =====
> Xin Wu, Ph.D
> Research Staff Engineer
> Etenna Corp.
> Laurel, MD 20783
> Phone: (240) 4564145 Fax: (240) 4560655
> http://www.wam.umd.edu/~xwu
>
>
>
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=====
Xin Wu, Ph.D
Research Staff Engineer
Etenna Corp.
Laurel, MD 20783
Phone: (240) 4564145 Fax: (240) 4560655
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~xwu
__________________________________
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