[SI-LIST] Re: EBD model support
- From: "Beal, Weston" <Weston_Beal@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Hermann Ruckerbauer" <hermann.ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:29:11 -0700
Hermann,
HyperLynx and ICX can use both S-parameters and EBD files. They can also
use SPICE subcircuits. I suggest that you do NOT use S-parameters. I'm
actually a big fan of S-parameters, but I see too many cases where they
are created or interpreted wrongly. It's just too easy to mishandle
S-parameters because the user usually doesn't know if the data in the
file is sufficient or accurate. If you can create a SPICE circuit to
model the same thing, then that is almost always a better model. A SPICE
model doesn't have causality problems (most of the time), and its
behavior is well defined across a wider bandwidth. In order to get a
Touchstone file with enough data points to correctly define a wide
enough bandwidth for time-domain simulation, the file will surely be
much larger than the equivalent SPICE file constructed of "real" devices
such as C, L, K, and T elements. These are ideal elements in SPICE, so
not actually real, but they are more real than mathematical constructs
implemented with controlled sources, E, F, G, and H.
So, I suggest using SPICE models whenever you can, and carefully using
S-parameters when you have to.
Regards,
Weston
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Hermann Ruckerbauer
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 1:39 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] EBD model support
Hello Experts,
I would need to decide on model format for a package model. Therefore I
would need some overview on support from the different simulators.
It's regarding S-Parameter vs. EBD model.
My personal preference is clearly S-Parameter due to accuracy (Coupling
and frequency dependence).
My guess is that all simluators "talk" S-Parameters.
==> Does anybody know a simulator that doesn't ?
On EBD models I'm not sure on simulator support. I know that HyperLynx
is able to generate EBD models out of a package substrate Layout, so I
guess HyperLynx can also use this model for simulation.
I think even when supporting IBIS 4.x it is not sure that the simulators
support all Features of the corresponding IBIS definition.
==> I would appreciate any response mentioning the support of EBD models
in different simulators!
Thanks and regards
Hermann
EKH - EyeKnowHow
Hermann Ruckerbauer
www.EyeKnowHow.de
Hermann.Ruckerbauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Veilchenstrasse 1
94554 Moos
Tel.: +49 (0)9938 / 902 083
Mobile: +49 (0)176 / 787 787 77
Fax: +49 (0)3212 / 121 9008
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