Having had "natural" black and red dogs since I started in the late seventies, I find this a most interesting thread. My dogs are American bred, and have very red pigment. I think it's the lines I have. I started out with a very red and black daughter of Sel. Ch. Bel Vista's Joey Baby, ROM. her dam was Von Purdum's Song Of Sybil. I bred the Joey baby daughter to a Judd grandson, Ch. Parkerhaus Arby. Only got one pup, a black and red bitch, ...Satana. Satana was bred to AOE Sel.Ch. Lothario Of Heinerburg,CD,ROM.Only got two males from this breeding, both black and red. Bred one of these males to a linebred Kane bitch, and got my current black and red dog. He will be bred in the spring to a black and red bitch, who was sired by Schokrest Vermont X current dog's black and red full sister. Will be hoping for black and red puppies. Marcia Black Oak's Missouri ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================