<<For example Monsieur, I interpret "The withers are higher than and sloping into the level back. The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short." to mean a dog that looks like this when stacked: http://www.fluffyrat.net/wildfyre/GSD.GIF Not a dog whose butt heads south for the winter.>> ---------------------------------------------------- The dog in the picture has a short and slightly steep croup. It is also lacking turn of stifle. Those things, combined with hocks that are too long relative to the upper and lower leg, create an obvious break between the back and the front of the croup. In that picture it is actually a small hump. While the back on that dog appears to be short, which is correct, it also appears a bit swayed ... although that may be an illusion created by the problems with the croup. In defense of dogs with "sloping" backs ... Most any dog can be stacked to appear to have an extreme topline. If you drag the back legs back on the dog in the picture, his butt would be closer to the ground while his withers would be in the same place. I personally put very little thought into the "slope" of the back (topline) of any dog that is standing. Watch them in motion on a loose lead. That is when the back is supposed to be level. I know that comment won't be popular with everyone out there who prefers a ton of topline in motion, but the standard is clear on that point... "At full trot, the back must remain firm and level without sway, roll, whip or roach. Unlevel topline with withers lower than the hip is a fault." In motion, on a loose lead, or without a lead, and not under a heel command, the dog's topline will show with no outside influence. While you may be able to determine the "level" back with the dog standing four square, feet under hip sockets, there is no other stance in which you could possibly accurately judge the back, in my opinion. Tom Langlitz ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================