In a message dated 12/17/2005 4:08:12 PM Central Standard Time, MarcatoGSD@xxxxxxx writes: The metatarsus (the unit between the hock joint and the foot) is short, strong and tightly articulated. Which I take to mean as "The dog shouldn't be able, or shouldn't HAVE to put his entire hock on the floor to support his body weight." -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't really know what to say to this. Your interpretation of the passage has nothing at all to do with the passage. A good strong and short hock could lay flat on the floor just as easily as a long one. All you need to do is put it there for the picture you're probably judging the dogs by. I agree that there are dogs that walk on their hocks, but that is not necessarily a length issue as much as it is ligament, or croup angle, or lead tension, or possibly other things. The truth is, most of us cringe when we see a GSD walk on its hocks. Breed for the good strong short hock because it is correct. The lack of drive I see is usually a structural problem. We've discussed locked hocks many times, and that will kill drive, but I think they are finally on the decline. Lack of drive today is more a result of the quest for extreme topline in motion, I think. With strong drive, the back would tend to level out in motion because that is where balance in forward drive is achieved when a dog suspends well. There is some topline in motion because the rear drive slightly lifts the front of the dog. However, if that is exaggerated then it seems as though it must cause a loss of suspension. Basically the dogs are doing a little more than power walking to maintain their extreme topline in motion ... in my opinion. Good drive and long suspension is created with strong "forward" drive. If you aim the topline upward too much, the drive will push the front of the dog upward too much, and a loss of ground coverage is the logical result. Tom Langlitz ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================