Pam, There is only one Standard for the GSD the last time I checked. The
problem lies in the interpretation of that Standard. Other problems arise when
breeders (all breeders, of any sport preferred) breed for certain aspects
instead of breeding for the Total dog. And then you have genetics. Another
problem is knowing in your heart when to pull a dog from a breeding program and
pulling it. This is not a new topic, this topic has been toss around, chewed on
and moved on for many years. When will it stop??? Maybe when there are only
those of the same thinking or when there is no one left to have healthy
discussions or debates with? A German Shepherd Dog, when bred correctly to the
standard can do it all.
As for learning .... just because someone has years and experience (in what
they do) behind them does not mean that they are continuing to do things
correctly. We should all be continuing our learning of the breed by what we
know, what we experienced and how the newcomer sees it. If newcomers and the
non dog public have to question why this or that on these dogs but not those
dogs .... then there is a problem that needs to be researched. As much as you
want the newcomer and general public to be open minded and accepting of what
things should be like, you too have to be open minded and accepting of the fact
that some things may need to be addressed.
JMO
Lyn Chernak
From: pkstoesser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: cherlyngsd@xxxxxxxxxxx; dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 10:42:11 -0500
In general, we all have opinions and everyone (new or old) have a right to
theirs, even as we realize that some will be right and some will be wrong.
It’s the discussions that lead us to reach out beyond our experience and learn
from the experiences of others.
However, I do believe that we also have the obligation to post and discuss
with respect for the other person’s experiences and to not phrase our
discussions with accusatory language or words that come across as attacks.
Some of us communicate in full sentences even as our culture is moving toward
communications in short bursts of single words.
Short bursts are suited for factual information like “R U going to
Sue’s?”. This list sometimes uses those. But deeper conversations
like how well our dogs meet the breed standard require more thought and longer,
thoughtful sentences because the answer is now, and has always been after Max,
“some do and some don’t”. Those discussions are necessary between GSD folk
and have been for years because it’s how we learn.
Without the Standard, there is a tendency to breed the dog for only one
purpose, whatever that might be so that a person gets a lighter, smaller dog
for
one purpose or a dog that runs fast but doesn’t gait for another purpose.
Both of those are wrong, just as much as breeding a dog who gaits flat on it’s
hocks or whose back rumbles with every step. The GSD Standard describes an
efficient dog suitable for working long periods of time without tiring,
protective of the sheep and the shepherd and beautiful in motion because of
that
efficiency. There SHOULD NOT BE a different standard for the conformation
dog, the working dog, or the performance dog.
If the people on this List can discuss differences respectfully and with an
intent to come closer to the breed standard, then is has a good purpose.
Otherwise, then each needs to consider whether continued participation is
worthwhile...
Just my opinion... Pam
From: Lyn Chernak
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 8:22 AM
To: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's
"Sarah" is one of many new and young fanciers of the breed.
She like many come to this list to learn and voice their opinion from what they
know from reading material available and seeing first hand at shows they
attended. She may be vocal with her opinions but so are others. We have all
agreeded to disagree when this started (back on AOL).
Instead of picking
her apart with her comments concerning "down pasterns" maybe the right thing to
do is find out why or how this issue was so prevalent that it caused a comment
(and not the first time or first person). Why have food formulas been posted
here to help dogs/puppies with down pasterns? Why have comments been made such
as "show them in high grass and not indoors" if there is no problem.
Have
any of the issues that newbies question and make comparisons on become so
accepted in the American dogs that they are not seen as questionable?
New
eyes and painful questions should always be taken into consideration or at
least
heard with and open mind. To be followed with your own question .... why do
they
ask that? What are they seeing that causes that question. This applies not only
to dogs, but to anything that is out there that has an ability to
change.
Lyn Chernak
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:05:08 -0400
From:
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re:
We need MORE Sarah's
I have read the
post of Sarah and she came across saying that "American Lines" had the pastern
problems, she NEVER saw bad pasterns in the German/Working lines. That
kind of attitude is attacking and accusatory. If you really want to learn
then do so. I go to a lot of shows I don't see American Show dogs having
down pasterns. There may be a few that don't have the greatest feet but
there is no perfect dog, German, American or whatever. Down pasterns in
puppies is common and I can't believe german/working lines don't have that in
their puppies sometimes. There were some people who were trying to educate
her but she seemed like she had her mind made up. The people who breed
American Show lines breed the bad pasterns. ummm noooo. Everyone has
their opinion its how you express it that either irritates people or
not.
MYJOY SHEPHERDS
Joyce Willis
-----Original
Message-----
From: Daphne Hereford <Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
edwinx <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2015 7:57 am
Subject: [
SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's
I
agree with you 100% Ed. Too often some on this list just “attack” and that is
just plain not nice. If the club wants younger folks to be there when we are
all
gone, then maybe they should be nicer to them and mentor them without attacking
them. Just my opinion of course, because some of those same people seem to get
some sense of joy out of attacking me.
Daphne
Hereford
AKC
Breeder of Merit
RIN
TIN TIN Line Dogs
www.HollywoodDogs.com
From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?]
On Behalf Of edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent:
Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:26 PM
To: freelist
Subject: [
SHOWGSD-L ] We need MORE Sarah's
We
talk about growing the club with new young members! Sarah is exactly what we
need! 30 years from now most of US won't be here, but Sarah will! New folks on
the list sometimes go through a "learning curve" most of us know the spoken and
unspoken protocols we navigate to communicate with complete strangers so to
speak! Sarah appears to be strong willed and opinionated and that could be said
about 95% of most of the active posters on this list! Agree or disagree with
her
is not the point! We need to be somewhat gentle with newer members of the
list..
It's okay to slam old farts like me! If we scare off all the new
folks pretty soon we'll just have Me and Evan posting all day telling everyone
insane, trivial , and useless things! How fun is that! We need to cut the new
folks some slack! Even though Sarah is a Patriot fan I'm willing to
over look it! FB
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