What is the stud dogs good points and weak points? What is he known to produce? Does the stud dog look like his pedigree? Has either bitch been bred ? I'll take the proven bitch :0) But I would take the bitch with the best front and the best ligaments. I think you said bitch 2 has poor feet. I would never breed a bitch with weak feet. I absolutely hate soft pasterns. The only constant you have given us is the stud dog being used. I would want to know what he produces before I choose. If he tends to produce short boxy females I would not use bitch 1. If he is knownto set a good shoulder and correct feet you might get away with bitch 2. In the next generation I bet you get the ugly feet back. And I hate ugly feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sticking with the bitch with the correct shoulder. I think it would be easier to buy a correct bitch. In fact that is what I would do. Find the best bitch you can. Why start a breeding program with a bitch that needs major corrections??? Breeding is hard enough why start in a hole? I say look for a better bitch. Terry My imaginary breeding is just for fun guys - not looking to make it complicated. This is called "let's pretend". They both have everything you want temperament wise, work ability, great with kids, herding instincts strong, obedience trained, good health on both sides. The imaginary stud dog - ditto! Just want to know about STRUCTURE wise, which bitch would you want to use in your breeding program. Structually one bitch has a good front and back and nothing else going for her, she's square and boxy. The other bitch has the topline, back, beautiful croup and tail set, NOT an elbow reacher, but could use a better lay back of shoulder, comes from a strong producing line. Both well bred, both good hips. So once again, they got everything that you want in their pedigrees - health, mind, temperament. I'm just asking about structure - that's all. Which one would you want in your breeding program all other things considered equal and why. That's it. Barbara ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================