[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: No place for us
- From: "Samuel Israel" <israelfriedberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <pcooke212@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:14:06 -0700
Paula: You are not aware of PETA? There are many people who strongly
believe that you should only rescue dogs and not buy from breeders. Maybe
you did not follow the story about President Obama when he was looking to
buy a dog and how people were pressuring him to not buy a pure bred. Or how
about when Vice President Biden bought a german shepherd puppy? He took a
lot of grief for that. These concepts are fairly typical in the liberal
world which is so prevalent in the big cities throughout the US. I can't
imagine how you have not run into these people.
You missed my point in any case. My point is that as soon as you put your
dog in any ring and you are trying to win, you are looking for a statement
that your dog is better than the next guy's dog. That is elitist. The
whole dog show world by definition is an elitist game whether it be all
breed or specialty. Hence, the expression: the pot is calling the kettle
black.
I also find it quite interesting about what you say about all-breed shows.
I am a member of an all breed club and am very aware of many things that
happen at these shows. I can also tell you I have had many friends go down
to all breed shows to watch dogs and maybe buy a show puppy. Well, I can't
tell you how many times people have told me that the exhibitors were so
snooty. I guess the Westminster show is a fairly informal friendly kind of
an event also. It kind of reminds of the informality and warmth of our
national show (LOL).
I guess you have never heard of "breeder judges" and other judges. In the
all breed ring there is a fine distinction between the two. Most breeders
prefer to show under and win under a breeder judge. It's just like winning
at a specialty show as opposed to an all-breed show in our world. The
specialty judges, assuming they are honest, know a thing or two more than
the all-breed judges when it comes to german shepherds. That is why among
german shepherd people they generally (there will always be crooks) respect
wins more in the specialty ring than in the all breed ring. I think they
generally know a better dog more than an all breed judge. Again, it is
elitist and in my opinion the specialty ring is just the higher court in the
german shepherd world. Ask Evan how much he respects the opinions of
all-breed judges. There is a reason for his opinion.
By the way, there is another arena that is also elitist-- the german ring.
They don't like my dog (although they are impressed about her movement and
how clean and strong she is) and they generally can't stand American bred
dogs. That's ok. I don't like their dogs either. They can be pretty
elitist as well. It's just the nature of the beast and you are part of that
beast. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
By the way, I have found the people in the specialty ring to be just as
friendly as any other place. Some nice people, some not nice. No
different. I show in both and I will tell you hands down that the
competition is stiffer in the specialty ring and as a result I covet my
winnings in that ring a bit more, but all are tons of fun for me. I would
never handle my bitch in the specialty ring-- the competition is too stiff.
She has to look her best if I want her to win in the specialty ring. I
handled my bitch 10 times in all breed shows and she went best of breed 6
times and BOS 2. This is just a reality.
I really don't want to get into a "My dog is better than your dog"
discussion or argument with you. It is juvenile. You obviously have a chip
on your shoulder about your dog and you obviously don't believe that he can
win regularly in the specialty ring if there is a good showing of dogs. I
respect David Rinke and think he is a very good judge. Telling people how
great he is, especially this crowd, will not change their opinions of him.
Offending people certainly won't. Having said that, I don't know your dog
and am passing no judgment on him, but it sounds like you can learn a thing
or two from him.
Samuel Israel, Esq.
-----Original Message-----
From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Paula Cooke
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 1:09 PM
To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: No place for us
How odd!! I have not run into that at all. People at work want Harley
puppies. People at the all-breeds constantly come up telling me how they
grew up with GSD's, how wonderful and smart the breed it, etc., etc. Hardly
a weekend goes by that someone doesn't ask me where to get a dog "just like
Harley."
One local paper has done two articles on him; one other local paper
requested an interview, but, would not give me the right to see it before
publication, so I denied the interview.
People do tend to come up and think Harley is German or European, and I
think these people have a poor perception of the American show dog, and I do
try to explain to them the differences. Those people are always surprised
that Harley is all American show lines.
People at the local PetsMart store are always impressed with his show wins.
Many complete strangers in town, and at dog shows, say that they will look
for Harley Davidson on tv when they next watch Eukanuba and Westminster.
I can't think of anyone being negative about pure-bred show dogs in my
circle. One of the people at work asked me what I was doing this weekend.
I said I had the weekend off, no shows. She asked me if I would bring
Harley to the dog park near her home! She thinks he is beautiful!!
All-breed people are the MOST supportive in the game. They frequently tell
me how nice it is to see a GSD that looks like a GSD should look, and
doesn't have his tail tucked, or doesn't walk on his hocks, who doesn't have
a sway back, etc. I think it is dog show people who have a poor perception
of our breed; the public seems to love them!
The public is very pro-dog, in my experience. And, they do seem to like
good dogs who look like what they are supposed to look like.
This isn't just a Harley brag, either, as I have had these same compliments
and comments on Ch. Diana, and my Gable son, Asgard's Romulus. I guess I
just am around different people than you two are?? Who knows?
Paula, 154 days and counting
Home of Best in Show, Multi-Group Winning, GSDCA Dual Title Award Recipient,
AKC JAM/AOE, International and American Champion Asgard Harley Davidson v
Plamark, HT, PT, CGC, TC, HIC, OFA CHIC #64047, DNA tested clear of the
long-coat factor.
---------- Original Message ----------
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:16:21 -0700
Subject: Re: No place for us
From: Kathy Tank <rbuffdogs@xxxxxxxxx>
Sam,
I can relate to this , upon one occasion I had a person who found out we
show dogs
say with clear distaste, "Oh I would never want any of them CHAMPION dogs".
(Her grammer, not mine)
Our dogs face a poor public perception. Our fancy faces the same.
On the other hand I was heartened to see one day, taking our Ch. Levi to
Hunter's elementary school, (he loves kids) a little girl in Hunter's class
, THROW her arms around Hunter when she found out Levi is a Champion and
Group Winner. Her excited words were...
"You mean he's won a GROUP like at Westminster?" I could have kissed the
kid, lol,
Hunter was dually proud and with head held high proclaimed, "Yes he has ,
and I"M going to
show him one day". I had to smile.
Hope springs eternal.
Kathy
------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 5/9/10 9:50:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
israelfriedberg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
I think this is a case of the "pot calling the kettle black."
Whenever I go to the dog park and tell people I show my dog, whether it is
the specialty ring or the allbreed ring, they think it is an elitist
endeavor.
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POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
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