----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Kelley" <jlkphoto@xxxxxxxxx> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:37 AM Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT Pyro & other developers WAS:Rollei Retro Film > Richard, thanks for the detailed info. You wrote "All > ancient history" in > your reply but there has been somewhat of a revival of > interest in B&W and > various newer formulae, especially Pyro variations. > For example, 510-Pyro from Jay DeFehr gets rave reviews > from most users: > ascorbic acid 5g > pyrogallol 10g > phenidone .25g > Triethanolamine 100ml > > The concentrate apparently has near infinite shelf life > vs. other Pyro > developers. The above concentrate is mixed 1:100 with > water for a one-shot > staining developer. > > I've mixed up a batch but have not had a chance to try it > yet. > Jeff > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Richard Knoppow > <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: A curious formua with three reducing agents. There are older formulas which combine Pyro and Metol. In these the Metol is more a preservative for the pyro than an active developing agent. Perhaps the same thing is happening here but I wonder what the pyro is supposed to do since Phenidone and ascorbic acid form a perfectly effective developer by themselves. One reason pyro had a bad reputation in the old days was the instability of some of the formulas. In particular it was common to alkalize using ammonia. Ammonia is volitile so the strength of the formula would change day by day. Another problem, and one faced by the movie industry after the introduction of sound, was that pyro negatives with a stain image are very difficult to analyse and control using a densitometer. The densitometer must respond _exactly_ as the print film does. The introduction of photographic sound to movies caused a revolution in laboratory methods because the sound must be printed onto the same film as the picture and requires very much closer control if the distortion is to be minimized. Before sound camera negatives were often developed by inspection and one was at the mercy of the lab man to get good results. The requirements of sound printing and the change to panchromatic film (necessitated by a change in the kind of lighting equipment needed for silence on the set) changed all this and resulted in the wide application of sensitometry and automatic processing. Stain images could not be made predictably so negative development went from the traditional pyro to M-H developers like D-76. With the increase in availability of good M-H formulas and tons of research being done on it the traditional pyro developers fell by the wayside although they remain favorites to this day. It would be interesting to compare some of the new pyro developers to traditional ones like Kodak D-1 or D-7 (pyro-metol). --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list