Mine had a CLA at Leica. Frank On 8 Jul, 2009, at 15:52, Ellestads wrote:
Please be careful cleaning interior surfaces of older coated lenses. Many of theses lenses (including Leica) ued soft coatings on the inner elements.Cleaning can reduce those coatings. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 09:35 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Hi Sanders, my vote would go for the internal haze. I had a Leica 90mm f2.8 lens with disappointing flare and glare, there did not look to be much haze on the elements but a clean improved things enormously. cheers, Frank On 8 Jul, 2009, at 13:51, Sanders McNew wrote:Thanks, everybody, for your thoughts on this. Carlos: I wasn't trying to stir the roller-flare pot again -- this is just general veiling flare. I promise never ever to ask about rollers and flare again. :-) Mark: I agree, that it is rarely a good idea to put the sun into the frame. But I am finding that if, for example, I shoot a person in shadow, with the Guggenheim Museum behind her on a sunny afternoon, the light reflected off the white expanse of the museum is enough to kill the contrast and turn the photo to mud. Perhaps I am asking too much of any camera. Still a guy can hope. Richard and Eric: It had not occurred to me that lens haze could be an issue. This happens most frequently with my 3.5E, which hasn't been in the shop for serious work since I bought it from Ken Hansen ages ago. Come to think of it, Melanie's 2.8E3 doesn't seem to have these issues. Would the E3 have different coatings than my old E? Sanders On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:07 AM, FreeLists Mailing List Manager wrote:rollei_list Digest Tue, 07 Jul 2009 Volume: 05 Issue: 155 In This Issue: [rollei_list] Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Lens coatings and veiling flare. Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:52:42 -0400 I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders ------------------------------ From: "Austin Franklin" <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:52:51 -0400 Hi Sanders,Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast?Yes. It is the only solution. Regards, Austin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:06:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Rollei TLR were provided with simple lens coating from 1949, during the TLR regular production up to 1981 the TLR lenses had not multicoating layers, only the Zeiss double layer coating; in 1972 Rollei considered multicoating lenses expensive too much for the TLR and unnecessary due to the four and five elements lenses, since Carl Zeiss would produce multicoated normal lenses, Rollei only used Schneider Xenotar and Xenar for the TLR from 1972/73. The only Rolleiflex F provided with multicoated lenses was the F Platin, Planar lens 2.8/80 HFT (actually it's a Zeiss T* multicoating made by Zeiss, it was used "HFT" name for commercial issues and the agreements between Rollei and CZ by that time), this Planar was used for the GX/FX afterwards, it was made from the scratch by Zeiss 'cause they no longer had the tooling to manufacture the TLR Planar. The main problem about flare under the situations mentioned below is the lens and camera age and their condition; light seals, black paint, light trap adjustments and conditions suffer the aging situation even if well maintained, anyway I have several samples taken with the 2.8C, 3.5F and 'cord IV where in similar situations and despite the subtropical sun I don't get flare or if I get it, it is maintained within reasonable limits, however I got once or twice ugly flare due to the special angle sun-lens. I'm convinced due to some tests that for old cameras like our TLRs, the f/stop has a significant influence to control the flare in the situations referred below, it could do a noticeable difference, I always try to shoot at f 5.6 and smaller f stops for backlit and similars, Avedon shot at f8 with the TLR in general. If my memory serves me good, you tend to shoot lens wide open or close to wide open, perhaps it has to do with the flare and rollers reflection problems. Carlos --- El mar 7-jul-09, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> escribió:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list____________________________________________________________________________ ________¡Viví la mejor experiencia en la web! Descargá gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8 http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=ar ------------------------------ From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:13:51 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Sanders - The problem with the later lenses is the much higher over-all contrast and "modern" look. Personally I hate it. Suggest you shoot one for awhile before you buy it... it will probably compel you to change yourlight, printing, development, etc... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Carlos Manuel Freaza<cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Rollei TLR were provided with simple lens coating from 1949, during the TLR regular production up to 1981 the TLR lenses had not multicoating layers, only the Zeiss double layer coating; in 1972 Rollei considered multicoating lenses expensive too much for the TLR and unnecessary due to the four and five elements lenses, since Carl Zeiss would produce multicoated normal lenses, Rollei only used Schneider Xenotar and Xenar for the TLR from 1972/73. The only Rolleiflex F provided with multicoated lenses was the F Platin, Planar lens 2.8/80 HFT (actually it's a Zeiss T* multicoating made by Zeiss, it was used "HFT" name for commercial issues and the agreements between Rollei and CZ by that time), this Planar was used for the GX/FX afterwards, it was made from the scratch by Zeiss 'cause they no longer had the tooling to manufacture the TLR Planar. The main problem about flare under the situations mentioned below is the lens and camera age and their condition; light seals, black paint, light trap adjustments and conditions suffer the aging situation even if well maintained, anyway I have several samples taken with the 2.8C, 3.5F and 'cord IV where in similar situations and despite the subtropical sun I don't get flare or if I get it, it is maintained within reasonable limits, however I got once or twice ugly flare due to the special angle sun-lens. I'm convinced due to some tests that for old cameras like our TLRs, the f/stop has a significant influence to control the flare in the situations referred below, it could do a noticeable difference, I always try to shoot at f 5.6 and smaller f stops for backlit and similars, Avedon shot at f8 with the TLR in general. If my memory serves me good, you tend to shoot lens wide open or close to wide open, perhaps it has to do with the flare and rollers reflection problems. Carlos --- El mar 7-jul-09, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> escribió:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list____________________________________________________________________________ ________¡Viví la mejor experiencia en la web! Descargá gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8 http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=ar --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:26:31 -0700 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. From: Gene Johnson <genej2ster@xxxxxxxxx> There's a lot of truth to this. Some of my best pictures of women are with uncoated glass. It requires careful light management, but the result is often much nicer to my eye. I have a view camera set up with an air shutter that I've put all kinds of different glass in front of. Old Kodaks and Ross Expres have been favorites fwiw. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Sanders - The problem with the later lenses is the much higher over-all contrastand "modern" look. Personally I hate it. Suggest you shoot one for awhile before you buy it... it will probably compel you to change your light, printing, development, etc... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Carlos Manuel Freaza<cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Rollei TLR were provided with simple lens coating from 1949, during theTLR regular production up to 1981 the TLR lenses had not multicoating layers, only the Zeiss double layer coating; in 1972 Rollei considered multicoating lenses expensive too much for the TLR and unnecessary due to the four and five elements lenses, since Carl Zeiss would produce multicoated normal lenses, Rollei only used Schneider Xenotar and Xenar for the TLR from 1972/73. The only Rolleiflex F provided with multicoated lenses was the F Platin, Planar lens 2.8/80 HFT (actually it's a Zeiss T* multicoating made by Zeiss, it was used "HFT" name for commercial issues and the agreements between Rollei and CZ by that time), this Planar was used for the GX/FX afterwards, it was made from the scratch by Zeiss 'cause they no longer had the tooling to manufacture the TLR Planar.The main problem about flare under the situations mentioned below is thelens and camera age and their condition; light seals, black paint, light trap adjustments and conditions suffer the aging situation even if well maintained, anyway I have several samples taken with the 2.8C, 3.5F and 'cord IV where in similar situations and despite the subtropical sun I don't get flare or if I get it, it is maintained within reasonable limits, however I got once or twice ugly flare due to the special angle sun-lens.I'm convinced due to some tests that for old cameras like our TLRs, thef/stop has a significant influence to control the flare in the situations referred below, it could do a noticeable difference, I always try to shoot at f 5.6 and smaller f stops for backlit and similars, Avedon shot at f8 with the TLR in general. If my memory serves me good, you tend to shoot lens wide open or close to wide open, perhaps it has to do with the flare and rollers reflection problems.Carlos --- El mar 7-jul-09, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> escribió:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list____________________________________________________________________________ ________¡Viví la mejor experiencia en la web! Descargá gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8 http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=ar --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Be Just and Fear Not ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:39:40 -0700 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. From: "Peter K." <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat and it will help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬ ------------------------------ From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:49:03 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. I believe John only single coats... at least this was the case last I checked... Eric Goldstein --On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat and it will help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:56:47 -0700 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. From: "Peter K." <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> Yes, but with the age of most Rollei lenses it is a better coating (arguably) compared to one that is 50 years old. Is it worth it? Depends. I had a Rollei Wide Mutar and a Xenotar done. Both had worn coating so to me it was worth it. I did not like the color shift with the Xenotar so I sold it along with several Rolleis I had when I went through my Rollei reduction period. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I believe John only single coats... at least this was the case last I checked... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat anditwill help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' inthesubject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe'inthe subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬ ------------------------------ From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:07:18 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Hi Peter - Not really commenting on which is better (single or multi) butreferencing Sander's original post asking for more modern coatings...Eric Goldstein --On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Yes, but with the age of most Rollei lenses it is a better coating (arguably) compared to one that is 50 years old. Is it worth it? Depends. I had a Rollei Wide Mutar and a Xenotar done. Both had worn coating so to me it was worth it. I did not like the color shift with the Xenotar so I sold it along with several Rolleis I had when I went through my Rollei reduction period. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I believe John only single coats... at least this was the case last I checked... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat and it will help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:55:56 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. From: Mark Rabiner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> I'd like to know of any lens which does not do that in those conditions. I don't think there is one. Of any camera system. Me I don't point my lens at the sun to see if I like it or not. Mark William RabinerFrom: Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> Reply-To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:52:42 -0400 To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Lens coatings and veiling flare. I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List------------------------------ From: "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:27:28 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sanders McNew" <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:52 AM Subject: [rollei_list] Lens coatings and veiling flare.I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders ---Check your lenses for internal haze. Shine a flashlight through the lens with the shutter and iris open. A very small amount of haze will destroy image contrast. The haze can be cleaned off but usually requires opening the lens. The difference between single layer coatings and later multiple layer ones is mostly exhibited in color contrast. The single layer is most effective at a single wavelength and falls off in effectiveness above or below that. Usually single layer coatings are peaked for either green or blue light. The residual reflection from the lens will indicate the peaked wavelength because it is its compliment. Lenses peaked for green light have magenta reflections and those peaked in the blue have amber reflections. Multi-coating broadens out the band of wavelengths, or colors, where the coating is effective. Double coatings were the first but modern lenses may have several coatings. A really good broadband coating should have nearly no reflection and that with no residual color. I doubt very much if any consumer lenses have this grade of coating but a practical coating will come close. The main visual effect of a multiple coated lens in photographs is an improvement in color purity and saturation although it will certainly improve monochrome contrast as well. The main effect of flare is to lower _shadow_ contrast, in effect similar to a long toe film. Haze has a similar effect but can be considerably greater than the internal reflection flare from relatively simple lenses. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:24:47 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Richard - I know that the C has been serviced relatively recently as this wasdiscussed here... if the lens was not cleaned carefully at that time,shame on whoever did it... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Richard Knoppow<dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sanders McNew" <sanders@xxxxxxxxxTo: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:52 AM Subject: [rollei_list] Lens coatings and veiling flare.I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders ---Check your lenses for internal haze. Shine a flashlight through the lens with the shutter and iris open. A very small amount of haze will destroy image contrast. The haze can be cleaned off but usually requires opening the lens. The difference between single layer coatings and later multiple layerones is mostly exhibited in color contrast. The single layer is mosteffective at a single wavelength and falls off in effectiveness above or below that. Usually single layer coatings are peaked for either green or blue light. The residual reflection from the lens will indicate the peaked wavelength because it is its compliment. Lenses peaked for green light have magenta reflections and those peaked in the blue have amber reflections. Multi-coating broadens out the band of wavelengths, or colors, where the coating is effective. Double coatings were the first but modern lenses may have several coatings. A really good broadband coating should have nearly noreflection and that with no residual color. I doubt very much if anyconsumer lenses have this grade of coating but a practical coating will come close. The main visual effect of a multiple coated lens in photographs is an improvement in color purity and saturation although it will certainly improve monochrome contrast as well. The main effect of flare is to lower _shadow_ contrast, in effect similar to a long toe film. Haze has a similar effect but can be considerably greater than the internal reflection flare from relatively simple lenses. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:10:06 -0700 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. From: "Peter K." <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> Well, IMO Van Stelten's newer coatings are better than the original, especially when one considers that the older one may not be completelyintact. Just my opinion. That being said, the flare control has a lot to do with lens design as well. I know my Tessar handles flare betterthan my Planar or Xenotar. Not sure why, but it does. Same with some of the Leica lenses. Even though they were based on the Planar, the change in design, sometimes through the addition of an element, improved the way it handled flare. Why? I am not 100% certain but I am sure Richard can shed some light on this. Cheers, Peter K On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Eric Goldstein<egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi Peter - Not really commenting on which is better (single or multi) but referencing Sander's original post asking for more modern coatings... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Yes, but with the age of most Rollei lenses it is a better coating (arguably) compared to one that is 50 years old. Is it worth it? Depends. I had a Rollei Wide Mutar and a Xenotar done. Both had worn coating so to me it was worth it. I did not like the color shift with the Xenotar so I sold it along with several Rolleis I had when I went through my Rollei reduction period. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I believe John only single coats... at least this was the case last I checked... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat and it will help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging intowww.freelists.org- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:16:14 -0400 From: Marc James Small <marcsmall@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. On 7/7/2009 6:10 PM, Peter K. wrote:Well, IMO Van Stelten's newer coatings are better than the original,especially when one considers that the older one may not be completely intact. Just my opinion. That being said, the flare control has a lot to do with lens design as well. I know my Tessar handles flare betterthan my Planar or Xenotar. Not sure why, but it does. Same with someof the Leica lenses. Even though they were based on the Planar, the change in design, sometimes through the addition of an element, improved the way it handled flare. Why? I am not 100% certain but I am sure Richard can shed some light on this.The Planar on our Rollei TLR's was a redesign of the original six-element Planar of 1896. That was a grand lens but its light transmission was rather low, so its designer, Paul Rudolph, went on to design the four-element Tessar in 1902. The Tessar is not as satisfactory a lens by most optical standards as the six-element Planar but it was more usable. Rudolph later turned over these designs to his assistant, Ernst Wandersleb, who succeeded Rudolph as Chief of Optical Design at Zeiss in 1920. Wandersleb, in turn, entrusted these designs to his assistant, Hans Sauer, and specifically charged Sauer to reconsider the Planar in light of lens coatings. It took Sauer 15 years to produce the Carl Zeiss five-element Planar, a design intended for coatings. The East Germans took Sauer's early work, left behind when he moved to Oberkochen, and produced the Biometar design. Marc -- msmall@xxxxxxxxxxxx Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir! ------------------------------ From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 18:20:57 -0400 Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. Interesting comments, Peter. Some of flare control inherent in design is the number of air to glass surfaces, and also the design andconstruction of the lens mount. Faster lenses are more prone to flarethan slower ones. Before coatings were around, these factors were front and center for lens designers. But it would be interesting to hear from Richard or other knowledgeable parties as to whether new single coating technology is superior to the single coating methods of the 50s... you'd think it would be and there would be some improvement after 50+ years... Eric Goldstein On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Well, IMO Van Stelten's newer coatings are better than the original,especially when one considers that the older one may not be completely intact. Just my opinion. That being said, the flare control has a lot to do with lens design as well. I know my Tessar handles flare betterthan my Planar or Xenotar. Not sure why, but it does. Same with someof the Leica lenses. Even though they were based on the Planar, the change in design, sometimes through the addition of an element, improved the way it handled flare. Why? I am not 100% certain but I am sure Richard can shed some light on this. Cheers, Peter K On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Eric Goldstein<egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi Peter - Not really commenting on which is better (single or multi) but referencing Sander's original post asking for more modern coatings... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Yes, but with the age of most Rollei lenses it is a better coating(arguably) compared to one that is 50 years old. Is it worth it? Depends. I had a Rollei Wide Mutar and a Xenotar done. Both had worn coating so to me it was worth it. I did not like the color shift with the Xenotar so I sold it along with several Rolleis I had when I went through my Rollei reduction period. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I believe John only single coats... at least this was the case last I checked... Eric Goldstein -- On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Peter K.<peterk727@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:The only one I know of is Jon Van Stelten in Colorado. He will recoat and it will help if you shoot B&W. With color from my own experience you get a shift. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Sanders McNew <sanders@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I shoot a variety of older Rolleiflexes -- a 3.5E and a 2.8C getting most of the work. Their weakness, in my use, has always been veiling flare when shooting a strongly backlit subject, or in other conditions where the sun or a bright reflection is in the frame. Does anyone onlist know when F+H or its lens suppliers upgraded the lens coatings on the TLRs? Are later TLR models more effective at suppressing veiling flare in these conditions? Do I need to ask Austin for his GX to tame this beast? Sanders --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe'in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging intowww.freelists.org- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list-- Peter K Ó¿Õ¬ --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:25:32 -0400 From: Marc James Small <marcsmall@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Lens coatings and veiling flare. On 7/7/2009 6:20 PM, Eric Goldstein wrote:But it would be interesting to hear from Richard or otherknowledgeable parties as to whether new single coating technology issuperior to the single coating methods of the 50s... you'd think it would be and there would be some improvement after 50+ years...Eric Of course it is. Call John Van Stelten for a technical discussion. The original lens coatings were both chemically poor and optically less than ideal: even early "hard" vacuum coatings were relatively soft and, in many cases, the coatings have gone from the front and rear elements, leaving only the internal elements coated. And the precise ability tocoat for a given wave-length took fifteen or twenty years to develop.Modern coatings are far more durable and the wavelength control is far better than it was a half-century back. Marc -- msmall@xxxxxxxxxxxx Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir! ------------------------------ End of rollei_list Digest V5 #155 ********************************* --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list--- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list --- Rollei List - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org- Online, searchable archives are available at //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
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