Previously I said... Of course... we could consider other dates. Here is a good list of other dates, take for example the release of the Pentium II, released in 1997. http://homepages.uel.ac.uk/u0221495/micro2.html There are many stages of retro one could say, and concerning in particular the IBM types... March 1993 Release of the Pentium (I) March 1994? The release of the computers that moved at 100 mhz.. this was a BIG event in the IBM type world. THIS is the date I would like to find. To find the date the 100 mhz ibm'ers started hitting the scene. Anyone else remember what a big deal that was, and how many thought that 100 mhz was impossible=20 for a processor? :) If we use this date we can say "Pre 100 mhz Pentium" 1997 Release of the Pentium II=09 @}>--'--,----------------------- Oh yeh, there are other stages that are big to the IBM-Types...(hardware) - The passing of the 1 ghz barrier. -The passing of the 2 ghz barrier... Etc. You know that when you say Pentium II, that is usually met with a certain level of scoffing now, as if they tossed that years ago. Mentioning a 1 ghz computer now almost gets the same response. All this to say that "pre-pentium" computers would be an impressive, or even a "Sub 100 mhz Pentium" would also be impressive. Now days many would be like "What can you do with less than 1 ghz much less 100 mhz!?!" As I said before, the one thing that the Mac and IBM worlds have had on their sides is years of development hardware wise and raw processing power. You put them on "equal footing" set a hardware limit... they will be harder pressed to compete with other platforms that have not had the hardware strives. In short, the Atari ST/TT computer has continued to develop for 68040/68030 machines. MP3 players, movie players, network connections... this was for a 1990 machine. In the IBM world, this may not be the case. Users tend to upgrade often. On the same token, the software is more compatible from the lowest OS till current, so you never know. Mac users tend to use a Macintosh for five years to a decade before upgrading.. basically till it dies, and then jump many generations to the next level. (Like me.. Mac 128 to Performa 575 to Wallstreet g3) ;) So there is some support and thought to the older stuff. And Amiga users are just insane. They have their hardware starting before 1993, and yet, they have worked around that for over a decade. PowerPC is common. And 3.9 can even run on a non-excellerated 68030 Amiga 3000. Amazing thought and adaptability. =20 There are newer Amiga's and ST's that will not be in this contest too. So to me, those 3 ghz IBM'ers like to scoff. Those computers are old. =20 Yes, they are. But let's put everyone on the same playing field. You take your IBM counterpart against my other counterpart... run any system it can run, any upgrade you can manage, but you have to work with that hardware. And how well does your equivalent machine stack up against the other? In truth, there will be IBM-ish users that will do this contest with flying colors. It is the rest that are not used to the older standards that will either learn a few things, or see from a distance what the older machines of all platforms can do.