[pure-silver] Re: Paper Scale Was Re: VC printing equipment
- From: DarkroomMagic <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: PureSilverNew <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:26:11 +0100
Measuring between Zone II and VIII is fine. It ignores the flat (low
contrast) parts of shoulder and toe from the characteristic curve of the
paper. They don't add much to the image.
This way, you end up with six zones (1.8), and placing that on grade 2 paper
(1.05) asks for an average negative gradient of 0.58. I usually place Zone
II on a reflection density of 1.89 and Zone VIII on 0.09.
Regards
Ralph W. Lambrecht
On 12/26/04 6:24 AM, "J.R. Stewart" <jrstewart@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 4. Can anyone recommend an especially long scale VC FB paper? I prefer
>>> neutral tone. I typically print to a scale close to 1.8-2.0 today.
>>
> Ralph replied:
>> Not sure what this means. Normal paper contrast is around 1.05. A grade 0
>> is
>> around 1.55!
>
> I assess the range as the number of steps from just above max black (I to
> II) to just barely detectable difference from paper base ( VIII 2/3 to IX).
> If I read correctly how others do it, they measure the scale between Zone II
> 1/2 - Z VIII reflectance. So my measured scale could be as much as .6
> exposure units longer, I guess. I orginally did this because I didn't want
> to settle on a shorter scale paper and wind up underdeveloping my negatives
> to that short scale.. in other words I wanted to ensure I had a long scale
> on the negative to capture as much detail as possible and still be able to
> print them well. I'm not sure a picture will tell you anything, but I've
> posted an example at http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2984916 (no
> manipulation except to bump up the contrast to match the original silver
> print). I don't post many of my photos, and even this one has some scanning
> defects, but this one shows the typical scale that I like. I'm trying for
> good separation of the highlights, a lot of mid tones, and good separation
> of the low values. I think if I compressed the scale any further, I would
> begin losing one end or the other.
>
> I'm wondering how much of this really matters, except for being able to
> relate my results to the "standards." I develop my negative to avg grad of
> .62, which gives me a longer scale, and I then need a long scale paper to
> print them to.
>
> Regards,
> J.R. Stewart / Leesburg VA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DarkroomMagic" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "PureSilverNew" <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 8:44 AM
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: VC printing equipment Was: Replacement
> forBromofort paper;
>
>
>> If I read between the lines correctly, you are somewhat hesitant to test.
>> I
>> suggest to overcome this hesitation. It is my experience that these tests
>> take less time then people expect and contain the opportunity to learn and
>> turn trial-and-error into experience and knowledge. Nevertheless, here is
>> my
>> opinion about some of your questions.
>>
>>> 1. I use a Thomas Safelight now and with fixed grade papers I don't have
>>> to
>>> worry about fog... should I worry about VC papers under a Thomas?
>>
>> The Thomas Safelight has adjustable baffles, changing the light output
>> dramatically. No safelight is really safe and all need to be tested. The
>> result of the test is not, if it is safe or not, it will give you a time
>> for
>> which it is safe enough. Test! Would you like a copy of the test
>> procedure?
>>
>>> 2. I know I can test, but can anyone give me a hint on which filtration
>>> will
>>> best match what I have today in my cold lite lamp? Is that 0Y/0M?
>>
>> No filtration will be close to a grade 2, but a test will reveal of paper
>> grades possible with this head. Many paper manufacturers give starting
>> points for their papers. If you don't want to test, start with 30Y/30M and
>> dial in more yellow to go softer and more magenta to go harder. The
>> benefit
>> of the test is that you can maintain highlight consistency when changing
>> paper contrast. Would you like a copy of the test procedure?
>>
>>> 3. Are VC papers as sensitive to different developers as fixed graded
>>> papers? I use Ansco 130 (softest), Ansco 120 (normal), and Beers for
>>> added
>>> hardness. Again, I know I can calibrate my new Dichro for each
>>> paper:developer combination, but should I expect to need to?
>>
>> I don't know the answer to this, because I only use one paper developer
>> (Dektol). I am about to try Neutol soon, because Dektol is increasingly
>> difficult to get over here in Europe. Changing contrast with a color head
>> is
>> easy enough. I see little need for multiple developers.
>>
>>> 4. Can anyone recommend an especially long scale VC FB paper? I prefer
>>> neutral tone. I typically print to a scale close to 1.8-2.0 today.
>>
>> Not sure what this means. Normal paper contrast is around 1.05. A grade 0
>> is
>> around 1.55!
>>
>> Good luck with your color head. I think they are great for VC printing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Ralph W. Lambrecht
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/24/04 1:39 PM, "J.R. Stewart" <jrstewart@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, after a round of several prints that I had to fight to get to the
>>> right contrast using my cold lite head and fixed grade paper and
>>> adjusting
>>> developer and development time, I decided to try VC. In January, I'll
>>> take
>>> ownership of a Super Chromega Dichro II head to put on my D2. It cost me
>>> about the same as converting my non-VC lamp to a V54 lamp.
>>>
>>> Some things I should have thought about before:
>>>
>>> 1. I use a Thomas Safelight now and with fixed grade papers I don't have
>>> to
>>> worry about fog... should I worry about VC papers under a Thomas?
>>>
>>> 2. I know I can test, but can anyone give me a hint on which filtration
>>> will
>>> best match what I have today in my cold lite lamp? Is that 0Y/0M?
>>>
>>> 3. Are VC papers as sensitive to different developers as fixed graded
>>> papers? I use Ansco 130 (softest), Ansco 120 (normal), and Beers for
>>> added
>>> hardness. Again, I know I can calibrate my new Dichro for each
>>> paper:developer combination, but should I expect to need to?
>>>
>>> 4. Can anyone recommend an especially long scale VC FB paper? I prefer
>>> neutral tone. I typically print to a scale close to 1.8-2.0 today.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice!
>>>
>>> Happy holidays, everyone.
>>>
>>> J.R. Stewart / Leesburg VA
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "J. Stewart" <jrstewart@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:23 AM
>>> Subject: VC printing equipment Was: Replacement for Bromofort paper;
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've been wondering lately whether I ought to go the route of converting
>>>> to
>>>> variable contrast. I used VC years ago, using filters (not a color
>>>> head).
>>>> I'm a bit reluctant to return.. the quality in those days wasn't near
>>>> the
>>>> quality of graded papers. Has that changed in the last 10 years or so?
>>>> ....
>>>> I know a lot of really good photographers are using VC. Plus, I think
>>>> I'd
>>>> like the ability to do split grade printing, and I sometimes like softer
>>>> papers than anyone can get in a graded form.
>>>>
>>>> I have a 4x5 D2 with cold lite head as my main enlarger.. standard light
>>>> source (i.e., not the VC). Would it be a major investment to equip
>>>> myself
>>>> with the gear to use VC?
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: <XRadar@xxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:04 AM
>>>> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Replacement for Bromofort paper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 9/17/04 10:09:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>>>> jrstewart@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>>>>>> Can anyone recommend a close replacement for Bromofort graded fiber
>>>>>> base
>>>>>> paper?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you tried Bergger graded paper? Not much choice for graded.
>>>>> Ilford
>>>>> Gallerie, Oriental Seagull and the Bergger for cold tone. Probably
>>>>> some
>>>> that I
>>>>> haven't seen. Guess I'm contributing to the decline as I'm using
>>>>> mostly
>>>> VC
>>>>> now. Just so much easier and easy to keep fresh supply. But still
>>>>> have
>>>>> a
>>>> lot of
>>>>> the old Seagull #1 in the freezer for the right image.
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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