[pskmail] Re: [pskmail] Re: STANAG 4285 legal in the US? (was: Re: Re: Server & Hamlib Question....)
- From: Rein Couperus <rein@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:38:42 +0200
I think in EU we already have de-facto bandwidth regulation. My licence tells
me
I cannot use more than 500 Hz bandwidth on 30 meters. That is a clear statement,
and it is easy to comply to that. It can be measured with a spectrum analyser.
The guts of my statement was that regulating on Baud rate is nonsense, and
totally impractical. It urges people to act as lawyers instead of technicians.
Rein PA0R
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Gesendet: 30.09.07 19:36:37
> An: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Betreff: [pskmail] Re: STANAG 4285 legal in the US? (was: Re: Re: Server &
> Hamlib Question....)
>
> Well, I don't know anything about that but 2-fsk, rtty, uses just one
> tone at a time. 4-fsk and 8-fsk can also use just one tone at a time and
> 8-fsk would then transfer 3 bits with every tone.
>
> I have very little experience from using 188-141A (2G ALE) so I don't
> know how they use those tones. The fft does look a bit complex:
> http://www.signals.taunus.de/FFT/MIL_188-141A_ALE.HTML
>
> But, using several tones at the same time would produce a whole range of
> harmonics, would it not? I see no reason to believe he is not telling
> the truth.
>
> But, it is a strange regulation. It would be better if they would focus
> on bandwidth instead, that would encourage innovation and it would not
> get outdated as fast. I really can't see why there should be a speed
> limit on hf, if they believe that high speed makes the bandwidth turn
> into a problem then why not regulate the bandwidth as that is the real
> issue. Speed and bandwidth used to be in strict relation to one another
> but that was decades ago. There still is a relation but its not 1:1 any
> more. But, if the regulation really talks about baud then we can
> increase the speed a lot.
>
> 73 de Per, sm0rwo
>
>
>
>
> sön 2007-09-30 klockan 17:13 +0200 skrev Rein Couperus:
> > I know where this argumentation comes from. Bonnie will do anything to make
> > us
> > believe the ALE stuff is legal. I especially like the "only one carrier is
> > transmitted at any time" phrase.
> > This describes frequency hopping. If I would put a DirectSequence signal on
> > the air with this
> > "300 Baud maximum" definition and chose the frequencies properly I could
> > generate a signal blanketing the complete 20 meters band, and people would
> > not like me very much for it.
> > I am sure the 300 Baud definition comes from "300 Bd ASCII", which is 28
> > cps.
> > Anything else looks like legal humbug and selective interpretation... It
> > sounds a bit like the Pactor3 stations operating in the 500 Hz
> > bandwidth-limited 30 meters band, who will tell you that it is perfectly
> > legal to do so because they started the qso in pactor1 mode and they are
> > not responsible for their SCS box switching to P3.
> >
> > 73 :-)
> >
> > Rein PA0R
> >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Gesendet: 30.09.07 16:24:07
> > > An: pskmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Betreff: [pskmail] STANAG 4285 legal in the US? (was: Re: Re: Server &
> > > Hamlib Question....)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On fre, 2007-09-28 at 08:09 -0700, Rob Frohne wrote:
> > >
> > > > I noted your previous note about STANAG 4285. I'm sure you must have
> > > > seen Charles Brain's experiments with it.
> > > > http://www.chbrain.dircon.co.uk/hfemail.html Is what you are working on
> > > > going to be legal in the US?
> > >
> > > Been thinking about the interesting regulations in the US...
> > > I noticed something interesting on this page:
> > > http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/
> > >
> > > I am refering to this part:
> > > "Does the ALE RF Signal Meet the FCC "300 Baud Rule" for Data mode?
> > > Yes. The ALE (MIL-STD 188-141B or FED-STD-1045) signal is transmitted at
> > > 125 symbols per second. It is legal under FCC Rules for use in the
> > > Amateur Radio Service for DATA MODE transmission on HF in the DATA
> > > sub-bands. Current FCC Rules in USA allow DATA modes up to 300 baud (300
> > > symbols per second) in HF data subbands. Symbol rate (baud) is the
> > > number of state changes the transmitted signal makes per second. The ALE
> > > signal is 8FSK (8 Frequency Shift Keyed). 8 discrete tone frequencies
> > > are spaced 250 Hz apart from 750 Hz to 2500 Hz at audio baseband. A
> > > single tone is being transmitted at any given instant on any one of
> > > these 8 frequencies. No more than one tone is transmitted at a time.
> > > Each symbol represents three bits of data, resulting in an over-the-air
> > > data rate of 375 bits per second (375bps) using "125 baud"."
> > >
> > > STANAG 4285 & MIL-STD 188-110A use 8-PSK to provide up to 2400 bps (not
> > > 8-FSK as in the example). The big issue is if they are correct in
> > > thinking that its the baud rate that matters (and not the actual data
> > > rate)?
> > >
> > > 73 de Per, sm0rwo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
http://pa0r.blogspirit.com
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