[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:37:05 -0700
but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some stuff about the
game
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>
>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so you have
>>> to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>
>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante (depending on
>>> how many rounds of betting there are cause i am dumb right now lol) and if
>>> you don't you can't play?
>>>
>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>
>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular poker
>>>> where it creates a side pot for people to continue betting and the person
>>>> that is out of money would just win the main pot if he wins, and the second
>>>> place person would get the side pot... but that seems clumsy to me. I
>>>> would
>>>> actually say we should just make it that if someone doesn't have enough
>>>> money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified and kicked from
>>>> the table until they have enough.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the pirate
>>>> dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and there's 3 games of
>>>> pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then a high
>>>> stakes
>>>> game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to loan small
>>>> amounts of money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if you run
>>>> out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that can earn
>>>> you
>>>> cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like, you could work as a
>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a mini bar
>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the rats and
>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever stuck and
>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money? IE when
>>>>> you are "all in"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
>>>>>> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round
>>>>>> starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the
>>>>>> game and call you would need to state that you have a greater than or
>>>>>> equal
>>>>>> hand than the person who called before you right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go
>>>>>> without for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of
>>>>>> pirate dice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>>>>>>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better
>>>>>>> talk it
>>>>>>> out first. I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was
>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>> it could work:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice.
>>>>>>> (I think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims
>>>>>>> a combination to open the match
>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin
>>>>>>> in and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd hidden dice is
>>>>>>> rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.
>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>> example it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have
>>>>>>> been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else,
>>>>>>> everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff,
>>>>>>> we kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> actual game. I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>>>>>>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>>>>>>> essentially "calling their bluff" - just like regular poker a bluffer
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> pudding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.
>>>>>>> One way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff. Once bluff is called, the
>>>>>>> accused
>>>>>>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if the accused was
>>>>>>> telling
>>>>>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee
>>>>>>> equivalent
>>>>>>> to the round's ante. my problem with any of these is it enables a
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all
>>>>>>> ears if
>>>>>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be
>>>>>>>> affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the
>>>>>>>>>> next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>> them out. Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>> something as
>>>>>>>>>>>> high or higher than one the last person said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out
>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to basically say you have something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>> push them
>>>>>>>>>>>> out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively
>>>>>>>>>>> higher combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly
>>>>>>>>>>> right - if
>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better
>>>>>>>>>>> combination
>>>>>>>>>>> of dice than the person before you, so essentially you're betting
>>>>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>>>>>> trying to bluff them out with every turn. Raising and making bets
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system
>>>>>>>>>>> where if
>>>>>>>>>>> you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for
>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>>>>> you lost 3 points, etc. i don't really remember though... but i
>>>>>>>>>>> dont think
>>>>>>>>>>> we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple
>>>>>>>>>>> and easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who
>>>>>>>>>>> continue
>>>>>>>>>>> playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas though! I was just
>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>> through playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i
>>>>>>>>>>> realized that
>>>>>>>>>>> betting, etc. overly complicates when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing
>>>>>>>>>>> anyways whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them out. Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> high or higher than one the last person said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to basically say you have something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the room (since there may be more players than are sitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiplayer perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker in relevance to this game. Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from divulging the type and combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or what you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting doesn't work in the conventional way. Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than escalating the bets manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an "ante" to stay in whenever it is your turn, so you have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either folding out of the game or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or are pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches the previous player, or calling the bluff of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous player. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realize this is a slight deviation from the current design but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will function much more cleanly and it makes more sense when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put into a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold per round, etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalated (i.e. it's low in the first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 5th or 6th round the stakes get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> omission when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there was some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge whether
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds. The game was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable. Sorry it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me but what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled. Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's. The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see all he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3's so he is probably not bluffing. The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first 3 dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess if other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing. Part of all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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