RE: embedding scripting into a program: a few questions
- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 22:39:19 -0500
Tylor as you know on our mud we wrote our own compiled language using bison
and flex. I do not recommend that to anyone who has half a brain any more.
It's hard to up keep and even though our language resembles a combination of
c++, basic and Pascal it is none of the above. We have to write all the
docs which makes the job twice as hard to up keep and we have to debug each
little problem.
Now with all that said I would use one of two languages either Python or
Java script which can both be embedded quite easy. I like LUA but there are
not a lot of documents so you would still have to write specialized
documents to fit your environment. Python on the other hand is a great
language to embed because there are so many coders who already know it and
the documents are amazing. Java script is the same way but it is a bit
harder to embed. You can have python in your game in seconds just buy
adding the right libraries from boost and then building on them.
So I guess in short the most important things you have to think of when
adding scripting are as follows.
1) how easy is it to bridge the gap from c++ to scripting language
2) How easy will it be for your builders to use and learn which means
documentation you will have to support
3) What happens when the scripting language out there changes like python
going from 2.6 to 3.1 do they have upgrade scripts like Python does.
4) What is the memory over head and speed of interpretation. We have over
28,000 scripts on our current game and while that don't sound like much many
of those are scripts that hang around waiting on events so you need to know
that you have a way to deal with that like an event que of some kind. We
dealt with it by pretty much making our game server an OS and the scripts a
compiled binary but in the days of jvm's there are better ways to deal with
it.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tyler
Littlefield
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:38 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: embedding scripting into a program:a few questions
Hello,
Bevire I switched to angelscript, I was bouncing around the idea of Lua.
From what I read, it doesn't support inheritance or classes, so I'm not
quite sure how I'd embed an OO setup like I want into a functional setup and
get the same sort of layout or design I'm working toward.
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean
On Mar 7, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Andreas Stefik wrote:
> Tyler,
>
> This is just a thought, and you can discount it if you wish, but are you
familiar with the programming language LUA? LUA is a scripting language used
all the time in commercial video games (e.g., world of warcraft). The reason
it is used is because they have a fancy way of binding between C++ and the
LUA scripts, which makes doing this kind of interface relatively
straightforward.
>
> I'm hardly an expert on the details, but if it were me digging around in
this area, I might consider using LUA scripts and basically using its
internal system of binding between C++ and the scripts.
>
> Stefik
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Hello Laura,
> The idea is that the world class be able to be exposed to the language--I
don't need to add methods to the world class. What I do need to do, and what
seems to be causing the issue is the component setup; All components will be
loaded at startup and as they're added, but I need to be able to inherit the
c++ component class and add to it in order to create scripted components,
then I can just register them with the world class.
> The issue is making the scripted components be usable. Obviously I can't
access a scripted component from c++, or I could through it's basic
functionality, but the idea is for the components to be able to be added to
any object whether scripted or not.
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler Littlefield
> http://tds-solutions.net
> Twitter: sorressean
>
> On Mar 7, 2010, at 7:23 PM, qubit wrote:
>
> > Hi Ty --
> > Did I read once that your base is implemented in C++?
> > Let me clarify what you are saying you want to do:
> > 1. class A in your scripting language needs to interface with class
World in
> > your base, and use its methods, and also to add methods of its own, and
to
> > do this dynamically. Right?
> > 2. These new methods need to access class World in some way. Do they
need
> > to go so far as to touch private or protected data? Since you want
dynamic
> > insertion/removal of methods in class A, these methods will need to be
able
> > to work with World without being members of World.
> > 3. As an aside, you could of course dynamically create a new inherited
class
> > C for each method m(), which is derived from World and therefore can use
> > World's protected and public data. m() can be a virtual or nonvirtual
> > method. But this all has to be done in the interface to your scripting
> > language. This is an interesting problem, as it almost requires that
the
> > scripting language have the same inheritance structure as C++ to make
the
> > implementation fall out cleanly. But who ever heard of a clean
> > implementation in the "real world"...*smile*
> > Now, if your implementation goes so far as to create derived classes
with
> > their own virtual table for each function added to A, you will need some
> > dynamic linking to pull it off.
> > I'll have to think on this one for a while.
> >
> > Hey Ty, great job picking an interesting project. That should go really
> > well on a resumé.
> > Happy hacking.
> > --le
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tyler Littlefield" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:12 PM
> > Subject: embedding scripting into a program:a few questions
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> > As some of you may know, I'm working on a custom mud base that I will be
> > releasing to the public and probably using for my own mud in the near
> > future.
> > I've got most of the stuff I want handled, except scripting; I was told
to
> > use Angelscript and was taking a look at it, but it seems to not be to
well
> > documented, so maybe someone has another idea.
> >
> > What I want, is to be able to make the world class (which stores a list
of
> > players, rooms, mobs, etc) accessible to the scripting language I use.
> > Secondly, I want to expose events so that the language can attach it's
own
> > functions to them.
> > Third and possibly more dificult, I want to expose my component system,
> > which I will explain.
> >
> > Rather than using a is-a setup (through inheritance), I decided to go
with a
> > has-a setup. This provides some really cool ideas for design, such as
being
> > able to let clothing use containers if you decide that your shorts need
> > pockets, without either moving container functionality up the
inheritance,
> > or using a multiple-inheritance setup, which can become messy. So, the
> > components get loaded with the object from a list. I can easily use an
> > AddComponent function to add the component to the list, but I'd like to
> > allow builders and coders that I don't want using shell or that have an
idea
> > for a component to be able to build one in the language of choice, then
> > register it with the dictionary that is used for holding components and
> > allowing other objects to use this setup. So, in short I need a sort of
> > transparent way to communicate back and forth, and not for the scripting
> > language of choice to just control the driver, etc.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler Littlefield
> > http://tds-solutions.net
> > Twitter: sorressean
> >
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