Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS

Hello,
There are other ways to do things than to have a header for every file.
Especially if the file just includes <html> <head> <title>title</title> </head> what I do, is use html, but then when I want my menu included or other things like copyright (which changes by year), etc I do something like: 
<?php include "menu.php"; ?>
HTH,

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
email: tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
web: tysdomain-com
Visit for quality software and web design.
skype: st8amnd2005
----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS
I don't know what the original poster was referring when he told about templates, but usually the word "templates" when talking about web apps, are template files used by many templating systems.
The templating systems can be used not only for creating web pages, but also text files with a special format, or other kind of files. 

For example, a template using Template-Toolkit in perl, could look like:

[% INCLUDE header.tt %]
[% INCLUDE content.tt %]
[% INCLUDE footer.tt %]
Where the header.tt template file could contain the first part of an html page as: 

<html><head>
<title>[% site.title %]</title>
</head><body>

and footer.tt could contain the end of the page as:

</body></html>

and content.tt could contain the content as:

<h1>[% title %]</h1>
<ul>
[% FOREACH client IN clients %]
<li><a href="/client/[% client.id %]">[% client.name %]</a></li>
[% END %]
</ul>
There are very simple templating systems like HTML::Template prefered by those who say that the design part and the programming part should be not mixed at all, or more complex templating systems like Template-Toolkit, that allows very advanced things.
Using any kind of templates is always prefered, even if they require a little more to learn at the start, but I think that using them is the most important step towards a better productivity and a more consistent web app.
I have also started by mixing programming code with HTML, which many PHP programmers use although that everyone knows that it is not recommended, I have also used to use things like: 

print <<EOF;
<html><head><title>$title</title></head><body>
...the page content...
</body></html>
EOF

but this way is very horrible and hard to maintain.
It is much elegant to use templates, which can be given to professional web designers that can create a better design of web pages, and then those templates could be used by the program, without needing to change the code of the program because a template was changed. Also a web app could choose to use from more templates, offering more types of design, depending on the user's preferences.
I have also created my own templating system that was very simple, very fast, but also very limited and impossible to improve, so finally I've chosen to try those templating systems, and I found that they are very useful that i've used them even for creating static web pages because it was much more simple to make updates than to manually change a lot of pages.
There are templating systems for all the most important languages that can be used for creating web apps, so you won't have any problem in finding them, no matter what language you use. 


Octavian
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jhomme1028@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS



Hi Lamar,
To me, a template can be a page you use all the time to make other pages. for example, let's say that you start making a web site. You might make a page that has a blank body, but has a top menu, a menu down the left side, and a footer. You would then use that starting page or template when you want to make the pages in your site so that you don't have to create each page from scratch. 

That's one way to think of a template. Does that make sense?

Thanks.

Jim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lamar Upshaw" <lupshaw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS
Please forgive my ignorance, but what are templates, and where can I find them? Ever since I first started coding web pages, i've been coding from scratch from beginning to end. I have put, what's for me, a whole lot of work in to server side programming, but I haven't paid much attention to how the pages would look to the sighted eye, as long as they read smoothly with jaws and window eyes. This is short sighted on my part, no pun intended! lol, and I'd like to fix that as best as a totally blind person can. 

With All Respect,
Upshaw, Lamar T
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS


Good information.
Thank You


"The Elf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 11/24/2008 4:44 PM >>>

the jaws cursor and the invisible cursor (jaws cursor key twice rapidly)
will tell you what things really look at, and the use of templates is a good 
way to have them turn out decently.

HTH,
inthane
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Programming Webpages Using JAWS
Thank You. That will help. I may have questions about how to place things on certain parts of the page but I will see if I can figure it out first. 


"Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx> 11/24/2008 7:42 AM >>>
You can get information about the position of a certain piece of text with Jaws, using the jaws cursor (the mouse cursor), then pressing alt+Delete. 
This will tell you the x/y coordinates.


Octavian
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Neal" <bneal@xxxxxxxx> 
To: <ProgrammingBlind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:33 PM
Subject: Programming Webpages Using JAWS
At work I am learning to use APEX to program web pages. When programming web pages using JAWS, how do you know where you are putting the information on the page so that it looks good to the sighted user. For example how do you know where you are placing your comboboxes and radio buttons, etc. Also how do you know where you are placing your text? When I read web pages with JAWS I often do not understand how the page is laied out unless a sighted 
user explains it even if I understand the information.

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