RE: Notice of list unification, and FAQ with more information
- From: Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 20:40:11 +0000
The Brits are cool people. I have two friends from Britain. Both are cool,
and both are the nicest people. lOL. Don't worry. This should be fun.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Client Services
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 8:25 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Notice of list unification, and FAQ with more information
Importance: High
Well the only question I have is: can you trust the Brits?
I mean after the war of 1776 and 1812, I am a little leery of working with them.
But I will give it a try I guess.
I just wish you were the moderator for the list and the merger was done the
other way.
You are one of the best we got Jamal.
Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication. You inspire me to do more
for my community.
H.R.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 2:28 PM
To: ProgrammingBlind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Notice of list unification, and FAQ with more information
This message is to notify subscribers of this list,
ProgrammingBlind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, that in about a week, probably over the weekend
of October 7, we will be creating a unified list with PROGRAM-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have listened carefully to discussions of list merging on both
ProgrammingBlind and Program-L. As the current list owner of ProgrammingBlind,
I have tried to address concerns, and answer common questions in an FAQ-format
below. I ask for your cooperation in helping the unification to go as smoothly
as possible.
Q. For what reasons are the lists being unified?
A.
* Common purpose. Both ProgrammingBlind and PROGRAM-L have essentially the
same purpose: to discuss and share information on issues of particular
interest to computer programmers who are blind or visually impaired. Such
issues relate to various programming languages, as opposed to other lists that
are focused on a single language like JAWSScripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or
Scripting@xxxxxxxxxxx (focused on the scripting languages of the JAWS or
Window-Eyes screen readers, respectively). This common purpose leads to other
reasons for unification, as subsequently explained.
* Increased pool of advice. With a unified list, more people will be available
to help someone solve a programming or accessibility problem that he or she is
encountering. The need for pooling advice is now stronger than ever because of
accelerated changes in the field of software development, and the corresponding
challenge of keeping up as blind programmers. For example, when the 2008
edition of Visual Studio was released (the leading IDE for Microsoft
technologies), we had good access with multiple screen readers. Over a year
after the 2010 edition of Visual Studio, however, there is only partial access
with the latest version of JAWS (the most expensive screen reader) when
combined with the commercial version of that IDE (this JAWS support is lacking
in the free, Express editions of VS 2010). As another example, apps in the
mobile space have been growing at an explosive rate in the last few years, yet
our ability to participate there is seriously limited. The iOS development
environment is generally not independently accessible; The Android platform
has severe gaps in accessibility infrastructure; Windows Phone 7 still has no
accessibility API.
* Decreased redundancy. With a unified list, people will no longer have to
cross post to reach others on both lists, thereby eliminating duplicate
messages that many of us receive because we feel a need to be connected to
expertise on both lists.
Q. Why is ProgrammingBlind being merged into Program-L rather than vice versa?
According to calculations made by someone on this list, ProgrammingBlind
currently has about 10 times the traffic of Program-L, so would it not make
sense for the merger direction to be the other way?
Also, ProgrammingBlind is a more descriptive name than Program-L, so is that
not a better name for a unified list?
A. These points were raised with the list owner of Program-L, George Bell, but
he prefers to maintain the name of the list he started.
Overall, these are relatively minor, administrative factors that are outweighed
by the benefits of unification. There are about 350 ProgrammingBlind
subscribers, and the management of FreeLists.org will help us merge the lists
effectively. ProgrammingBlind is more descriptive as a name, but there is
nothing offensive about Program-L, and its more generic nature could arguably
make sighted supporters of our issues feel more welcome.
Q. Who is George Bell? Should a list for blind programmers be owned by a
sighted person?
A. Although a legitimate concern, George should not be disqualified for having
sight in this context. He has many years of experience in the adaptive
technology field, running a consumer-oriented adaptive technology company
called Techno-Vision Systems in the United Kingdom, which is located on the web
at
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk/
George is also a programmer, himself, and knows a lot about braille.
Moderating an email discussion list is mainly an administrative function.
The list is not intended to be a democratic organization of blind people with
elections, resolutions, budget allocations, etc. The barrier to entry is
trivial for anyone else who would like to start an alternate list if moderation
by George seems unsatisfactory, e.g., via FreeLists, Yahoo Groups, or Google
Groups. George has successfully moderated lists in our field for years,
including Program-L, GUISpeak, and Program-Java.
Q. Will all programming languages be valid topics of discussion on the unified
list?
A. Yes. In direct communication with me, George has agreed to welcome
discussion of any programming language, including Java. The Program-Java list
would remain for those who want to focus on that language via a dedicated list.
Q. Will programmers of all skill levels be welcome on the unified list?
A. Yes. George has been clear that questions from beginning to advanced
programmers are welcome, so long as the tone is professional and polite.
Q. Will casual conversation be permitted on the unified list?
A. Yes. George and others on Program-L have a sense of humor, though
currently it may be more British-oriented. <grin> List subscribers,
however, are still expected to be respectful of the time of others so that
the list can be productive for everyone. Common rules of list etiquette
will apply, such as avoiding personal insults, speculation without
evidence, "me, too" messages, etc. The goal is to keep the signal to
noise ratio high, especially since the total volume of messages may
increase.
Q. Will I have to do anything to join the unified list?
A. No. This should be handled automatically for you by the list owners
and FreeLists.org management. It is possible that minor glitches will
occur, as with any administrative process, but we will work to resolve
those as rapidly as possible. Your patience and cooperation is requested
during the transition. Naturally, filters you may have set up in your
email client may need to be adjusted, but this should not be burdensome,
especially for people who are technically inclined. Several years ago,
the list was successfully transitioned from BlindProgramming.com to
FreeLists.org. This transition within the FreeLists.org domain should be
easier.
Q. Is it true that some active members of the ProgrammingBlind list
unsubscribed because a merger was previously announced? Will this risk
losing more people?
A. Three people did publicly unsubscribe previously. I have been in
touch with two of them, who say they are now willing to try the unified
list. We all need to make our own judgments about the value we get from a
combination of lists. There are trade-offs, so all people cannot always
be satisfied. I have outreached individually to others with concerns as
well.
Q. If I do not wish to join the unified list, how do I unsubscribe from
this list? Will ProgrammingBlind be continued?
A. The ProgrammingBlind list will be terminated after the merger is
complete, since the purpose is to create a single, unified community. You
can unsubscribe from ProgrammingBlind or Program-L via the FreeLists.org
web site. It is up to you, of course, but I ask that you give the unified
list a try before deciding to quit in advance. If you do encounter
problems, please let us know, but do so in a constructive fashion. We are
doing this, not out of whim or for power, but for the best, long term
interests of the blind programming community.
Jamal
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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