Also, if there is a night when it is questionable and we want to drop a
scope and add a presenter, we need a method for determining which scope
gets dropped. It could be as simple as drawing straws.
We could make this decision by having everyone put down if they are willing
to drop (right in your RSVP in the calendar) if needed. This way, no ones
feelings are hurt if I have to drop a scope due to needing a presenter.
Also, no one should have hurt feelings. It would be understood that if
clouds get in the way, we all agree someone will be dropped, if not all 4
scopes that night. And i think we should base it on the bottom of the
rotation list. If your name is at the bottom, after all the signups are
done, and you are about to be dropped, who ever is on the bottom, can be
dropped and then moved up the list. we'd have to figure out how to make
that work. I saw what i was trying to say and then it slipped my mind. I'll
think up a way to do this, although, we could just do it by names in a hat,
and if you are dropped one day, the next time your name comes up, you
aren't to be dropped again, you are excused from being dropped.
What i am saying is... put the 4 scopes names in the hat. #1, #2, #3, #4,
and lets say #3 gets picked this time. And then say, another day comes
along where we have to drop one scope, and the scopes are #3, #4, #5, #6
and so, #3 was already dropped once, so #3 gets excused from being dropped,
and it would be selected from the remaining 3 scopes as to who gets dropped
this time.
I would have to keep track, but it would be fair that way...
this wouldn't count the back up scopes. Only the hired scopes for the
night.
i would assign everyone a paper in my hat bucket to use when i need to pick
someone to be dropped that night and just know, you won't be dropped the
next time around. In fact, we could do it as dropped once, and then excused
3 times (that would be four jobs) and then you are back in where you could
be dropped if chosen. Or something like that.
Anyway, i love the suggestions. Keep them coming. I have to make a decision
soon as i know it will take a while to get all the events on the calendar
before we start the sign ups and i will be monitoring the sign ups.
Terri
On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:26 PM, insanas <insanas@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I do not consider the rotation list to have failed. It has seldom been
used over the last few months because it was agreed that the jobs already
set would not be changed like the DBG and private Scottsdale events this
spring. But they will be subject to rotation in the future. Also, the
summer months seldom have high paying jobs. Therefore this fall we should
be using the rotation list more often
I also think with 64 scopes 16 runner positions to fill, Terri's plan to
have everyone pick a spot and then do it again a few days later is fair and
workable.
I also think we should go with 4 scopes and no presenters on good viewing
nights, and 3 scopes and one presenter on questionable nights, and 2
presenters and no scopes on totally cloudy nights. I think that we should
just sign up the scope people first. Then when all 64 spots are reserved
have people sign up as runners and presenters and backup scopes during a
second month of sign ups.
I think that anyone currently on the star tour list should be eligible for
any job, but if they do not take at least four low pay or free jobs during
the previous 12 months then they should be dropped from the star tours
list for a year. Just a suggestion. The numbers could be more or less
depending on the opinions of the star tour members.
Also, if there is a night when it is questionable and we want to drop a
scope and add a presenter, we need a method for determining which scope
gets dropped. It could be as simple as drawing straws.
Sam
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Kevin Witts <kjwitts@xxxxxxx>
Date: 06/09/2015 5:33 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: starstuff@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Star Tours Group <passtartoursgroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [passtartoursgroup] Re: input requested about DBG Luminaria event
Terri,
I didn't really need a runner last year, but if the group wants it, I'm OK
with it. I think we should consider having the runner be a part of the star
tours group. It will provide more opportunities for the star tours people
and we'll have people who know how to run scopes and also to explain to
those in line how things work, what we are looking at, etc. I think the
runner should have astronomy knowledge and knowledge of scopes. That's my
opinion.
One thing that we did often last year was to have a single presenter with
three other scopes on cloudy nights. We did that numerous times and it was
well received. Would the four scopes include one of those being a
presenter each night? or would it be four scopes plus a presenter each
night? Or would we only have presenters attend when we were cloudy and on
clear nights have 4 scopes only?
I understand that , on completely clouded nights, we have only presenters
show up and I think we should have two presenters for each clouded out
night. it's better for managing crowd sizes. People show up whether it's
cloudy or not unless there is a threat of rain. One presenter isn't enough
on completely clouded out nights.
There are "middle ground" nights when we could only show the Moon or
really bright objects and , on those nights (which are many) I think we
need a presenter there and just three scopes.
It worked really well last year when it was cloudy and one of the scopes
converted to a presenter, so I'd propose that we consider that option.
As far as sign-ups, have we decided that the rotation list is a fail and
we won't use that anymore? Otherwise, I agree with Sam that there should be
plenty of notice and then, have at it for signing up. If you don't read the
e-mails, then don't complain that you missed out. I had no problem with
how signup worked last year. I just think it needs to be fair with no one
getting an early foot in the door.
I would also ask if there is any qualifier for staying on the Star Tours
list such as, the person must have done events within the last X number of
months, etc. I think that those who do numerous outreach events during the
year including free stuff (Bookmans, PVCC) or low paying stuff (schools)
should get first crack at the calendar for DBG and then let others fill in
the holes.
It's disappointing to see some show interest in only high paying events
while others do much throughout the year, in sometimes less that ideal
conditions, because of a commitment to sharing the love of the sky. I
believe that commitment warrants special consideration.
Please let me know if you need any clarification on these suggestions from
me.
Kevin
On Jun 9, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Terri <starstuff@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Good afternoon Star Tour Group,
I'd like to get your input on this.
Here's what we are doing this year for the DBG Luminaria events.
There will most likely be 16 events again,
and PAS will be providing 4 scopes minimum, same location, same time, same
everything, except I would like input on this....
The pay was $200/scope at 4 hours each night.
That means for 4 scopes, it is $800/night that DBG is paying PAS to have
us there.
In talking to many of the group members, since the event in Dec 2014, it
was discussed that we might want to pay, from the income, a runner for each
night. To have bathroom and breaks would be great. I know, 2,000 people a
night, who gets a break, but when you have to go, you can't leave your
scope unattended even for a moment, the public thinks they have the right
to use your telescope, as if DBG were providing it for their use. So, we
need a runner.
And it was talked about, but not decided on... that we should take some of
our pay, some of the $200 that is made that night, and donate $10 to the
Runner, per scope. So, the runner would be there all 4 hours, same dress
code is required, and they could be someone who knows how to work a scope,
or not, doesn't matter, as long as they help get everyone to the bathroom,
as needed, and checks on each scope operator each hour.
So, if we did that... here's how the pay would work.
DBG pays $800
$200/scope
PAS gets 10% up to $25, so $25 goes to PAS
and $10/scope would go to the runner
So, here's the break down
$183.75/scope
$25 to PAS
$10/scope to Runner is $40/night
If everyone is in agreement with this set up, then let's make it happen.
The reason I ask about this is that DBG wants to know if it will be $800 /
night again for the 4 scopes,
or $200 to have one presenter/night when cloudy, again, like last year.
Does anyone feel we have to increase the pay, or are we all ok with that
amount? I know DBG is making a ton of money from this event, but if we get
too greedy, they won't keep us hired, and if we can get our business cards
out to everyone who wants one, while there, then we can possibly get more
jobs from doing this one and the lesser pay won't seem so bad.
Ideas? Should i tell them yes to the same terms as last year and get the
Booking doc filled out and start signing up our members to do these events?
In put is requested.
Signups:
Here is how signups are going to work this time:
We have a rotation list.
We will sign up one date at a time. I will open all the dates to everyone
and you can sign up for one, and only one. Then, after a few days, I will
open it up to everyone to sign up for another date.
If you don't want to do this event, or you can't, or you don't fit the
requirements for dress code (all black, no name badge, professionalism, on
time), then just don't sign up.
If you take a date and can't make it, we will need 2 back up scopes per
night, and we will open up back up scopes to sign up after all the nights
are filled in with 4 scopes and a Runner. I think I will name the Runner a
Scope Runner.
The job of the Scope Runner...
On the hour, go to each scope, ask if they need a bathroom break, or any
other kind of break, and if they don't, then move to the next scope and
ask. If they do, fill in for them, providing a 15 to 20 minute break. If
you don't know how to work the scope, just stand there and tell the patrons
of DBG that the scope operator is visiting the bathroom. If you do know
what to do, take over for the scope operator.
When you have made your rounds, you are free to walk around DBG until the
next hour comes up. Do it again.
So, lets say your Scope Running takes you 15 minutes the first hour,
because no one needs a break. Take the other 45 minutes to do what you want
to do, walk the grounds, see the bands, what ever. Then, at the top of the
hour, come back and provide breaks again. The Scope Runner is on the clock,
just like the Scope Operators and the Presenter, from start to finish. No
exceptions. You have to be available all 4 hours of this job.
So, each day of DBG LUminaria we need to have:
4 scopes
1 Runner
1 Presenter
1 Back up Presenter
1 or 2 Back up Scopes
signed up, for just in case something weird happens.
And if you have to drop from a date you have, I need to know by the day
before, by NOON, so we can find a replacement scope for you.
And if you are a back up scope, take your scope stuff with you to work so
you can go straight to DBG if you are needed. Don't sign up as back up
unless you can be on call.
To keep the math the same, whether someone is a Presenter or a scope
operator, the pay will be the same.
it will be $200/night
$10 to the runner
$6 to PAS
Hmm, the runner only gets $10 that night. Do we have an idea how to make
it more fair. $10 for 4 hours? But they do get to sit with Mike or Kevin,
during the presneation, and not have to run between scopes, so they are
doing less over all. What are your thoughts?
And should we have 2 presenter4s each night, giving the runner $20 for
running? We did that last year, 2 presenters on cloudy nights. Made it
more interesting for the attendees. Yes, let's do that. So, cloudy nights
will be $400, with the break down of
$20 to the Runner
183.75/presenter x 2 is 369.50
and the remainder to PAS which is
400-389.50= 10.5 to PAS.
That works out better for the Runner.
And the presenters and scope operators all get equal amount per night.
Just PAS gets the adjusted income.
Are we in agreement?
Have a spectacular week!
Terri, Event Coordinator
Here's the link to this discussion in the forums.
http://www.pasaz.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2520#post2520
--
Good friends are like stars. You don't always
see them, but you always know they are there.
Terri Phoenix Astronomical Society <http://www.pasaz.org/> Event
Coordinator
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