I apologize for being way off topic, and please all replies off-list. Am I the only one that finds this very disturbing? http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5668622 Make sure you see the video, it really brings home the issue I think. Feel free to reply to me personally or goto my Blog and comment, I have a new page up on this issue. Please do not fill this list with replies. :-) Sorry for the OT post, I'm just seething over this. Hail all things Oracle! RF Robert G. Freeman Author: Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press) Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press) Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press) Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) Oracle9i New Feature Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com (Oracle Press) The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You must be LDS to apply (please don't write to me and tell me I'm breaking the law. A church can choose to hire members of it's own faith. Look it up if you don't believe me).