[opendtv] Re: Why Freeview succeeded
- From: dmenolan <dmenolan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: Open DTV list <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:18:57 -0500
See in-line..
Kind Regards,
Dermot Nolan
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From: INTERNET:opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, INTERNET:opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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=
Date: 18/03/105 13:56 PM
RE: [opendtv] Re: Why Freeview succeeded
=
dmenolan wrote:
>The reasons why Freeview has succeeded are:
>
>a) It is free
> =
>
Sure helps but do you think that OnDigital could have succeeded and be =
viable today with better business decisions?
NO. They were demolished by Sky: it is now a business school case study. =
It is said TopUp Tv has 190k subs but that is a minipay service with very=
low operating costs.
>b) The receivers are extremely affordable
> =
>
What is the lowest priced decent receiver today? Around =A350 for a good =
one, =A339 for cheapo ones with less sensitive tuners etc..
>c) The receivers are often given away with high ticket CE purchases
> =
>
Any examples, URL's that you could share? Most UK CE sites do this eg Dix=
ons or Comet (all .....co.uk types!)
>d) The modulation system works. It works in severe multipath conditions.=
End of story.
>
>e) The content line-up is very attractive if you only have 5 analogue TV=
channels, one of which has quite ropey reception in many areas
> =
>
Why is the broadcast TV spectrum so limited there and could more be =
freed up after your transition? Still don't understand why 25% of the =
country is not served.
There are 1100 repeater stations and the spectrum is very intensively us=
ed and the distances are much smaller than in the US. At home for example=
I have 5 analogue channels, two sets of six DVB-T channels, another two =
sets of four analogue repeater channels, and four long distance channels =
which is practically 50% of the UHF band (makes the in-house RF distribu=
tion system quite tricky with taboo channels. ) Also the distance between=
major markets is less than 100 miles so there are tremendous overlaps. (=
In Outer London you can recive three other markets for example all with =
different local channels.) They gave up on VHF years ago because it is us=
eless in the summer months (and today too because of the weather) because=
of interference from Europe. Yesterday I had a French Band III station o=
n a telescopic antenna due to the weather! So frequency reuse is a big pr=
oblem. the reason why it only has 75% coverage is they have not built out=
the network to match analogue coverage..
After the transition they will have high power DVB-T (which means indoor =
in the urban areas and mobile most places in you have diversity). Fourtee=
n of the 44 UHF channels are being reclaimed for other uses: I suspect so=
me will be for national DVB-H networks as the mobile companies could affo=
rd the auction and some might be for terrestrial HD (MPEG4) but this is s=
ome way off..
>f) the main services are all widescreen and this is the quickest way to =
get anamorphic widescreen
>
>g) The picture quality is very good (i isn't HDTV, its component EDTV, b=
ut for most UK homes it looks good)
>
>h) There are many digital radio stations carried via Freeview: this has =
proved to be one of its USPs as you can have DTV and digital radio all in=
one for $50
>
>i) The reception issues with any DTV system (cliffs, antennas, margins, =
cables) are now very widely understood at retail level. After seven years=
this is not surprising
>
>j) A large number of cable and DBS homes are using Freeview on second an=
d third TV sets ( why pay additional subs all around the house): about 25=
% of the base
>
>k) You can receive it mobile if you have a diversity receiver in your ca=
r, SUV, etc. This is only just starting
> =
>
Since you don't have an SFN how are the handoffs from one transmitter to =
another? They are not syncronized so there would be drop outs etc.?
Not needed. Regional inserts at different centres round the country. The =
DTV repeaters are actually digital translators fed by fibre (not offair b=
ut the technology for that is coming..)
As they are not synchronised the only dropouts are local eg power failure=
at transmitters (has happened) but is very well engineered and with 50%+=
homes digital the QoS of the DTV system is v high (once analogue failed =
but DTV continued: that caused a storm..)
>l) It is marketed very slickly by the BBC and has shot from nowhere to b=
e a household brand
>
>m) Unlike the US the broadcasters have cooperated to put the platform to=
gether: a clear example of the group survival instinct in play.
> =
>
That still seems to be a no-no here. I think if the recent loss of =
multicast must carry sticks (Martin could change it or Congress could =
make a deal) broadcasters in the US may get a bit more agressive which =
could lead to a bit of co-operation. Can't help but think the thought of =
must carry put a damper on Emmis talk of co-operation
Its sink or swim vs DBS or cable and the BBC were determined to have inde=
pendent digital distribution from satellite: which is why they pushed DTV=
so hard. That strategy has paid off resoundingly. You saw Alan Roberts c=
omment on the reflector: a lot of people do not want to pay Mr M. Period,=
as you say in the States. I think the fiasco in the US, the lack of a sh=
ared perspective, the travesty of the MSTV/NAB fake tests, the Not-Invent=
ed-Here-Syndrome and the fatal crutch of cable dependency all point to th=
e long decline of free OTA TV in the US. All it is is a HD simulcast of t=
he same content: its nice but is it enough? The results say not.
You see 21st century broadcasting needs to leverage its wireless roots an=
d that is the route being pursued elsewhere.
>n) It has a full EPG service with full localisation for each TV market. =
This is the glue for a PVR industry which is just taking off.
>
>0) COFDM chips are now peanuts because of the volumes and, unlike the sy=
stem which dare not speak its name, it works.
> =
>
From my conversations the cost of 8-VSB is going up not down. I seem to =
remember talk by Frank Eory here of just such a scenario.
In fact Frank said exactly that yesterday on the reflector. He is, of cou=
rse, 100% correct. They now realise they have to have good tuners and goo=
d chip sets: the reason its not being done is that there are no markets f=
or it so they cannot drive the price down and nobody wil take the risk. T=
he conventional COFDM is dirt cheap because its a commodity and there are=
lots of very good tuner solutions (this was all realised in COFDM in 199=
9.). The only expensive chips are the DVB-H ones, $10, because they are c=
ompletely new and very fancy. But if you see the plans for MDTV the price=
s will tumble very quickly. There is no real incentive for IC vendors to =
invest in ATSC because its a marginal business which is not very importan=
t in the rest of the world: therefore no scale economies. And the US is a=
cable/satellite + NTSC society.
>pP CE vendors now have the confidence to integrate it in TVs, LCDs, plas=
etc. Sony + Panasonic announced that all their bigger ranges will be dig=
ital by year end: that will increase the penetration further.
> =
>
Why wasn't it integrated sooner? What percentage of the market is =
digital or has a digital receiver integrated now?
Economics and business confidence; the CE vendors can see Freeview shippi=
ng in the millions. Only a small % are digital but this will change this =
year (reason: LCDs and plasmas can all hide cost of digital tuner. and, a=
s elsewhere, are v popular now..)
>q) By the end of the year Freeview will be in around 35% of all homes, o=
vertaking DBS which has 30% penetration.
> =
>
While the US is still around 1% and holding. Yes, I am afraid ATSC remain=
s very much an enthusiasts toy, rather than a replacement TV system. NTSC=
has a great future I wager..
>r) It has now reached a virtual economic cycle.
>
>The things that are wrong with Freeview are:
>
>a) It is still only available to 75% of homes
>
>b) Its transmitters operate at max 20kW whereas the big sticks should be=
run at around 100kW (cf Berlin...)
>
>c) There has been no use of SFN technologies: broadcasting is quite loca=
l here.
>
>d) They have not really expanded the network since it was first put in i=
n 1998-2000: this is about to change.
>
>e) Unlike Berlin etc it does not have widespread indoor antenna coverage=
because of the low powers. That would reallt tilt the economics of distr=
ibution in favour of DTV bigtime
>
>f) It has insufficient capacity to compete with DBS on a pay footing whi=
ch is why ITVDigital died.
>
>
>But many lessons have been learned about how to roll out DTV successfull=
ly. In France you will see the next step in DTV: a system which combines =
MPEG2 SDTV Freeview, MPEG4HDTV, and a dedicated DVB-H network. That will =
be a very interesting departure later this year...
> =
>
I don't understand why there is any use of MPEG2 in a system being built =
today.
Cost. MPEG4 boxes are 40% more today for identical functionality. Going d=
own the MPEG4 route makes sense if you are a greenfield pay-tv provider e=
g IPTV, DVB-H mobile Tv (where it is essential), DSL-DTV, new HDTV system=
s. If you just want to do SDTV the MPEG2 boxes are a complete commodity. =
In time MPEG4 will be cheap but the pay providers can bankroll the rollou=
t!
DN
Bob Miller
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Dermot Nolan
>
=
=
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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:58:27 -0500
From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
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To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Why Freeview succeeded
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