[opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION
- From: Craig Birkmaier <brewmastercraig@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 00:31:37 -0500
On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Manfredi, Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Craig Birkmaier wrote:
Broadcasters looked at the DTV standard from the perspective of
how their analog facilities operated. They completely ignored
the fundamental transformation enabled by "being digital."
Unfortunately, you misunderstood this at least as much as they did, Craig.
Among other things, you thought "no standards" were required. But I've
explained this too many times to see the same old arguments go back to square
1.
I never said no standards were required.
We recommended that the FCC set the base layer standards needed to enable
digital television broadcasting. We ALSO recommended that they SHOULD NOT
MANDATE the higher layers needed to BEGIN the digital television transition. We
correctly stated that these layers would evolve rapidly and should be driven by
the marketplace.
If you doubt the validity of this position just look at the Internet. Nobody
set standards for streaming video - the marketplace created solutions and the
technology evolved rapidly.
The FCC DID adopt the ATSC standard, throwing out Table 3. But the vested
interests - including broadcasters - ignored this and TABLE 3 was frozen in
time and silicon.
Some may claim that this level of certainty was necessary, pointing to the 50
year legacy of NTSC.
Others can point to the rapid progress and innovation we have witnessed with
the Internet - WITHOUT mandates, WITHOUT IETF STANDARDS. The IETF only
standardizes AFTER the marketplace has demonstrated the need, and all affected
parties agree to work together to codify the technologies that have been proven
in real world practice.
So which approach has worked best Bert?
We explained that the compression and services layers of a DTV
standard would evolve continuously,
Those are empty words.
No Bert. They were prescient and obvious words. And they have been validated
in practice.
While the ATSC standard remains locked in 2nd generation digital compression
technology, we have seen multiple companies develop multiple generations of
compression technology. Moore's Law has enabled vastly superior compression
techniques based on increased computational complexity.
Not only was the ATSC standard born of collusion, the MPEG-2 standard was
subverted to embody analog video compression techniques that were totally
inappropriate for a digital imaging system. Most of the processing techniques
used in the MPEG-2 standard were already, or about to enter the public domain.
Most of this IP was wrapped up in new patents for the coding of interlace.
The simple and most efficient way to deal with legacy interlaced SDTV formats
would have been to deinterlace before digital compression. This would have been
accomplished with a few thousand high quality professional devices; devices
that evolved rapidly thanks to Moore's Law.
Instead, using interlaced emission formats required millions of TVs to
implement cheap deinterlacing techniques.
There was no excuse for using interlace in new formats, both EDTV and HDTV.
The collusion was rampant, and two decades later NOTHING related to broadcast
television has evolved. Meanwhile, Bert is telling us that all the standards we
need already exist, thanks to the Internet.
The ATSC standard could accommodate whatever updates you wanted, in codec or
anything else.
Yeah right.
You can create mountains of new standards; the ATSC has created about three
dozen since the standards we still use today were adopted in 1995. NONE of them
are implemented in the mandated tuners that ship in every TV today.
We've talked about A-90, the Data Broadcast standard.
We've talked about A-153 the Mobile Handheld standard - at least a few stations
have implemented it, but hardly any receivers have been sold.
So Bert...
Do you know what the A-92 standard is?
How about A-72?
Or A-100, A-103, A-104, A-105, and A-106.
CLUE: one of these standards allows broadcasters to use h.264. But nobody is
doing it.
The reality is that nothing has changed in 20 years...
So you focused on the wrong aspects. The problem was not the standard, but
how TV manufacturers implemented it, in receivers that were not software
upgradeable at all. Haven't I just recently made those points to you, Craig?
Why not pick up from there, instead of going back to square 1?
You cannot have it both ways Bert. You can't give the guys who colluded and
crippled the broadcast standard a pass, then blame the companies who are
creating the future TV infrastructure for trying to work with the content
oligopoly.
Broadcasters and TV manufacturers turned the ATSC standard into silicon
concrete. The TV manufacturers moved on with 3D and connected TVs, and now 4K.
But the torch has passed to the companies that have turned the Internet into an
engine of innovation.
The entire ATSC standards process was a case study in collusion.
Only in the sense of royalties.
No Bert. It entrenched legacy technologies that the companies that paid for the
standard wanted to protect. It locked broadcast television into a digitized
clone of their legacy business model and technologies - interlace, 59.94, the
CRT phosphor based color space to name a few. And yes, it was all about the
guaranteed royalties, thanks to the FCC tuner mandate.
There was no collusion between the owners of content, the distributors of
content, and the CE companies.
FOTFL
I saw no evidence of LG, or Samsung, or anyone else, each having to get in
bed separately with CBS, to permit reception of CBS content on their sets. I
see plenty of that collusion with streaming boxes now. How is it that you
keep missing this?
Because there was no need - the TV manufacturers paid to create a standard the
content owners were comfortable with; a standard that protected the way the
broadcast business operated and the equipment infrastructure they had invested
in.
You seem to miss the fact that the ATSC standard and the mandated receivers
protected the legacy businesses that had colluded for years. You never sat in a
room demonstrating a new computer based technology that fundamentally changed
the way video content is edited, and had the head of a broadcast network walk
in an tell the execs behind the demonstration to "SHUT IT DOWN."
Please don't lecture me about collusion.
Yes the companies behind the streaming boxes are cutting deals - that's how
things work, especially when the TV business is fundamentally changing and the
content owners are trying to control the new business model.
These computing platforms do run browsers that access the Internet.
And they run programs and browser extensions that enabled the
computer to deal with the challenges of decoding and displaying
video.
You mean, functionally identical to what any PC can do, even though the PC
can do this without having to beg for special favors?
No Bert I mean what PCs do - I was talking about the HP and Dell PCs you
mentioned.
But the content owners refused to allow their content
Can we get past this nonsense?
No. It really happened Bert.
High value entertainment content was not available on PCs (or Macs) until the
systems were completely protected. You could not play a DVD. You could not
download a movie or TV show. You could not access an OTT site.
We've been around this circle only a zillion times. Move on, Craig. Explain
why these boxes need special favors. Explain why streaming box A must beg for
a different interface protocol that streaming box B. Collusion, Craig. That's
the only reason.
You're hopelessly arguing in circles.
How about letting the user decide?
Good idea.
Fifty million consumers have decided to connect a streaming box to their TV.
Tens of millions connect game consoles.
Only a few million connect PCs to their TV.
And how does this address that ONLY a handful of pay sites are receivable,
and that AppleTV and Roku must beg separately for their special favors? You
are attempting to drown out the argument out with an avalanche of pointless
words, Craig. Address the core issues, without needing to be prompted?
You have no clue what your talking about Bert. Your wife tells you about new
stuff on her Roku, while you hunt for free stuff on your PC.
I have access to about 60 sources on my 3rd gen Apple TV, and new stuff is
being added each time I turn it on. Many of these sources are free and mirror
what you can access at the.com sites.
If you want to know what's available look here:
http://www.techhive.com/article/2597986/streaming-media/your-complete-guide-to-every-apple-tv-channel-a-to-z.html#slide1
And there are already thousands of apps for the new 4th gen Apple TV.
So what? A standard was needed, the device makers may have footed the bill,
but many other organizations were also involved in ratifying it.
Yup.
The TV Networks
Dolby
Sarnoff
MIT
Columbia University
Kodak
And many more, all with vested interests
Once the standard became approved, everyone could use it, and did. I don't
see where the different TV manufacturers have to separately collude with the
TV networks, to receive their signal.
They colluded with the TV networks to create a standard which they thought
would protect an entire industry...
It did not.
Regards
Craig
Bert
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- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION - Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC CHAIRMAN PROPOSAL TO UNLOCK THE SET-TOP BOX: CREATING CHOICE & INNOVATION- Craig Birkmaier