Greetings All, Over the past seven years or so, I have spent a considerable amount of time studying and photographing the smaller forms of white-cheeked (Canada/Cackling) geese that winter in the Pacific Flyway. While most of these efforts have been made within what might be referred to as the Willamette Trough–from Ridgefield NWR south to Eugene–I have also studied Aleutian Cackling Geese in Humboldt County, California and spent a fair amount of time looking at the birds that winter in pastures along the lower reaches of the Nestucca River in southern Tillamoook County. Earlier in the day Bob Archer, Scott Carpenter and others have offered some good tips for separating the two predominant forms of Cackling Goose in the Pacific Flyway. Ridgway's Cackling Goose (subspecies minima) now winters mostly in the Willamette Valley and extreme southwest Washington. Aleutian Cackling Goose (subspecies leucopareia) is for the most part a coastal migrant in Oregon and northwestern California and then turns inland to winter in California's Central Valley. You will be hard-pressed to find any source that offers meaningful criteria for separating the third Pacific Flyway form of Cackling Goose (Branta hutchinsii taverneri) from Lesser Canada Goose (Branta canadensis parvipes). In fact, most descriptions of these two taxa compare them to one another and describe them as being the same size and virtually identical in appearance. In the ID pdf shared earlier today by Bob Archer, the culmen measurements offered for both forms (32-40mm) are identical. I've photographed birds that I initially presumed to be Lessers and other birds that I initially presumed to be Taverner's Cacklers and compared lots of birds in the field. I've never been able settle on any differences other than those that fall within a cline that I think can be attributed to individual variation. Based on what I've seen, the range of variation in the "Tav/Lesser" grouping mentioned by Scott Carpenter is certainly no more extensive than the variation that I see among minima Cacklers. I find it particularly telling that an otherwise accurate and authoritative treatment of the ID criteria for white-cheeked geese (the pdf shared by Bob) includes not a single comparative of image of Lesser v. Taverner's, even though both forms supposedly winter side-by-side in the Willamette Trough. In my opinion, the voice of the putative subspecies Taverner's is honking and more Canada Goose-like and not at all similar to the higher-pitched yelping vocalizations of other subspecies of Cackling Goose. This, along size differences between Taverner's and the three other Cackling Goose subspecies, suggest to me that what we know as Taverner's Cackling Goose may be more closely related to the Canada Goose group. Taverner's are significantly larger than the the three other forms of Cacklers and they are close in size to Lesser Canada Goose and Dusky Canada Goose. Given that Taverner's and Lesser breed and winter in the same areas, look alike and sound alike, what criteria should we use to sort them? I recall reading somewhere that a mtDNA study showed them to be distinct subspecies, but I haven't the foggiest notion of how one might separate them in the field. As Scott mentioned, even after much study there are birds that can't be safely assigned to subspecies. I routinely see "tweeners" that I can't confidently slot to subspecies. That said, I think that the majority of Ridgway's, Aleutian, and Richardson's Cackling Geese can be identified in the field. However, separating Lessers and Taverner's in the field remains a challenge even for the most experienced goose observers. I certainly can't claim to be able to ID them visually. Dave Irons Portland, OR