[obol] Re: Are birding e-mail lists obsolete? (long post, ick!)
- From: David Irons <llsdirons@xxxxxxx>
- To: Alan Contreras <acontrer56@xxxxxxxxx>, OBOL Oregon Birders Online <obol@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 05:46:15 +0000
Joel and Alan raise some great questions and concerns in their posts on this
topic. While I am among the more avid eBird users in the state, my dependence
on it for real time updates about birds that I may want to go look at is
virtually zero. Reports of rare birds sometimes take at least one 24-hour cycle
before appearing on the Rare Bird summary that Treesa Hertzel has been sharing
to OBOL on a daily basis. This is not timely reporting if you ask me. If I'm
out in the field and I find a species that I know others will want to chase, I
use my cell phone to post it to OBOL or the appropriate local listserv as quick
as I possibly can, as I feel this is the absolute fastest way to share the
news. If I am in a county where I know there is a prominent local birder, I
endeavor to contact that person directly to let them know what I've found.
Working as I do in Yamhill County, I have occasionally stumbled onto some
pretty good birds for the county. I call Paul Sullivan and Carol Karlen before
I even post to OBOL, because if they are home (rarely), they are within 10
minutes of where the bird is most of the time. After a few calls from me, they
now call me when they find a good Yamhill County bird. I'm not always in a
position to go see it, but I very much appreciate their efforts to let me know
about good county birds.
Thankfully, I am at a point in my Oregon listing life (diminishing potential
returns) where there aren't too many reports that will inspire me to chase, so
I rarely look to listservs in order to decide where I am going to go birding.
If I were a newer birder just starting to build my state or local county list,
I would be far more concerned about the potential loss of real time reporting,
which listservs do and eBird does not provide. Alan is absolutely correct. No
one should feel an obligation to report sightings to eBird or be made to feel
like they are a waste of human flesh because they opt not to use eBird. It is
not for everyone and never will be. Going out to look at birds, take in the
landscape and perhaps gaze upon a few butterflies without ever taking a note,
counting a flock, or somehow recording what you saw, is a perfectly reasonable
and relaxing way to spend your leisure time. I endorse it and on rare occasion
I even engage birding this way myself. Some of us are just wired a little
differently, which drives us to count, record, and archive what we see. If you
tell me I'm a bit obsessive compulsive about it and that it appears to be a bit
of work, you'll get no argument. For reasons I can't put a finger on, it
enhances my enjoyment of birding.
As to the notion of significant or important sightings slipping through the
cracks, that is always going to be highly subjective. As an example, when was
the last time that someone posted (on OBOL or another local listserv) detailed
directions to a location where one might be almost assured of seeing an
American Dipper? And yet, there is very likely some listserv subscriber out
there who would view such a report as being significant or important because
they have yet to see an American Dipper. If you asked Joel, Alan and I to make
a list of the species or subspecific populations that we consider worthy of an
OBOL report, our lists might share some similarities, but there would also be
some divergence. I know from recent postings that Joel would like to see all
sightings of Oregon Vesper Sparrows in western Oregon reported. I agree that
better tracking of this vanishing population merits thorough reporting of all
sightings. I don't know if Alan would agree or not. In my own case, if someone
thought they had a migrant celata or orestera Orange-crowned Warbler in early
to mid-April at Skinner Butte or Mt. Tabor, I would want to hear about it. You
could surely count on one hand the number of other Oregon birders who would
care. Aside from the obvious (1st state records or otherwise mega-rarities)
there has never been a criteria established for what deserves to be reported in
real time via OBOL, so individual interpretation will be a factor in what gets
reported. No way to really legislate that.
Listservs do just as the name implies, they serve individual posts and reports
to a group list of potentially interested parties. How closely one monitors the
individual reports or chooses to receive updates (digest or individual
postings) is a matter of choice and will affect the timeliness of
notifications. Listservs also allow for group discussions and interactions that
may aid in clarifying vague or faulty directions in short order. The eBird
database is extremely limited when it comes to serving up individual
notifications of rare birds. If the location has not been properly captured (my
phone occasionally does this when I'm working offline) or observer who drops
the pin in the wrong place, there is no forum for getting the corrections made
and disseminated quickly. Unless the reporting observer recognizes a mistake
and changes it quickly, we are sort of stuck with bad information.
For the foreseeable future, listservs will continue to be an important
component in our information pipeline and we should appreciate and encourage
those who maintain these systems for our benefit. If they were to disappear, I
think most of us would quickly understand just how much we had lost.
Dave Irons
Portland, OR
Subject: [obol] Are birding e-mail lists obsolete? (long post, ick!)
From: acontrer56@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 21:04:04 -0700
CC: rv-birds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: obol@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Joel raises an interesting question that The Curmudgeon has a couple of
thoughts about.
I use both Ebird and OBOL fairly often, but I don't use them the same way for
the same purposes. I generally use e-bird when I spend a chunk of time in some
specific, definable place and pay careful attention to whatever I find. I
often report those lists to e-bird, because they represent a reasonably
thorough effort on my part to do a sort of "mini-count" for a site.
But that isn't the way I bird all the time. Some of my birding is pretty
casual and patchy. That's just the way I am. For me, birding is a hobby, not
a job, and I approach it differently depending on the mood I'm in. I know it's
a sin, bit I don't always try to find or list all the birds where I happen to
be. And I never will. So I tend to post a lot of my more casual birding (and
of course any rarities) to OBOL.
It seems to me that if I find a bird I KNOW to be rare, I have an obligation to
get the word onto at least one of the birding lists. Relying on Ebird for that
seems a bit lazy. Surely we have some baseline obligations of courtesy to
other birders interested in seeing rarities.
Obviously the situation is different for a beginner or someone in new territory
who simply doesn't realize that a bird is rare enough to report. It seems to
me unreasonable to whack someone in that situation for not reporting.
Ultimately no birder can make another birder behave in a particular way. One
of the concerns I have about some trends I see in the birding world is that we
seem to hear more often that there is a right way and wrong way to bird. If I
hear from one more person that I "should" report to Ebird because it is the
right thing to do, I'll probably cease doing so at all - I have been birding
for 47 years and anyone who wants to be my nanny can go play in the traffic.
There are many ways to fit one's personal birding interests into the very large
tent that constitutes the birding world. I hope that both Ebird and OBOL and
other local lists can remain lively and useful.
Heck, I just wrote a long post, didn't I, a week after trashing others for
doing so. Well, Walt Whitman excused his contradictions with the phrase "I am
large, I contain multitudes." I am definitely large, so I'll let that be my
excuse.
..Alan Contrerasacontrer56@xxxxxxxxx
Eugene, Oregon
On Jul 11, 2014, at 8:10 PM, Joel Geier wrote:Hi all,
As some of you know, I've been monitoring the eBird rare-bird alerts,
mainly for Central Oregon but I also pay attention to Willamette Valley
observations.
What I've been noticing is that, increasingly, significant birds are no
longer getting reported via e-mail -- neither on OBOL, COBOL, nor the
Mid-Valley birding list (the three lists that I subscribe to).
It's not that these birds are getting reported by out-of-state birders
who just happen to be visiting Oregon. Most of them (at least in the
MidValley region which I can speak for, as I manage the list) are
birders who are subscribed to the e-mail list, and presumably monitoring
the list for reports. However, they are not reporting back to the same
lists that they monitor. Today's list from Marys Peak is just one
example.
Is this an "intimidation" thing? I do often hear from birders who are
hesitant to post to OBOL, usually because they feel that their reports
aren't "significant enough" for statewide attention.
And yes, posting to OBOL might sometimes seem like climbing through the
ropes into a pen full of sumo wrestlers.
But both COBOL and the MidValley list are smaller, more
community-oriented lists, and generally supportive for new birders.
When local birders are no longer reporting birds of local interest to
their local birding e-mail lists, I start to wonder if it's still worth
the effort that goes into maintaining these lists.
This is a concern that was raised by several birders who were still with
us, back in the early days of BirdNotes (www.birdnotes.net), in 1998 or
1999. The way that we responded back then was to make it a policy to
forward any reports of interest to the e-mail lists.
I may be wrong, but I've picked up a strong vibe from some eBird users
that basically they want to push birders to rely exclusively on eBird
for their reports. Well, that's their prerogative but in that case, I
don't think it's equitable to be monitoring the e-mail lists for rare
bird reports, and then not report back to the same lists.
I spend 5-15 minutes per day dealing with list administration issues
(mostly spam) for the Mid-Valley list. It's not much per day, but over
the course of the year, it adds up. I'd guess that Dave Lauten is
spending a similar amount of time on OBOL, if not more.
If birders no longer feel that e-mail lists are relevant, then I'm sure
that both Dave and I, and probably also Jim Moodie out in Bend, could
find better things to do with that time. Alternatively, people who have
started just posting to eBird, and who still find these e-mail lists
useful, could perhaps spend another minute or two to inform other
birders of their most interesting finds.
So far as the Mid-Valley is concerned, we have another thriving list,
Mid-Valley Nature, which deals with general naturalist topics, and is
often much more interesting than the narrower-scope bird postings. If
list-oriented birders are gravitating toward eBird as their sole method
of reporting, then I'm inclined to shift over to the Mid-Valley Nature
list for future reports.
Good birding,
Joel
--
Joel Geier
Camp Adair area north of Corvallis
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