. . Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:16:58 -0700 From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [Net-Gold] John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue . . If you reply to this long (13 kB) post please don't hit the reply button unless you prune the copy of this post that may appear in your reply down to a few relevant lines, otherwise the entire already archived post may be needlessly resent to subscribers. . *********************************************************** . ABSRACT: Kevin Stacey in an AERA-C post titled "Bill Ayers 'exhumes' John Dewey for a conversation on progressive education" pointed to an article "John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue" [Ayers & Schubert (2012)] at <http://bit.ly/Jp4bxF>]. This is an edited transcript of a conversation between educators William C. Ayers (WCA) and William H. Schubert (WHS), with the latter, WHS, former president of the John Dewey Society <http://bit.ly/JrxTlF>, playing the role of John Dewey (JD). . In one exchange WCA asks WHS (JD) to respond to Glenn Beck's assertion that Dewey thought "Teachers aren't there to tell a child if he or she is right or wrong ? THEY'RE THERE TO HELP THE CHILD THROUGH A TOUCHY-FEELY PERIOD OF SELF DISCOVERY." . WHS (JD) responded that in "Experience and Education" Dewey (1938. 1997) had written that "in considering the difference between traditional and progressive education, we shouldn't just take one side or the other, but we should look at a deeper level where they can both be integrated." And in "Democracy and Education" Dewey (1916; 1997) had written that "EDUCATION IS RECONSTRUCTION AND REORGANIZATION OF EXPERIENCE WHICH ADDS TO THE MEANING OF EXPERIENCE, AND WHICH INCREASES ABILITY TO DIRECT THE COURSE OF SUBSEQUENT EXPERIENCE. . . . SO IT'S NOT JUST A CATERING TO INTERESTS. . For another exhumation of John Dewey see Ted Ansbacher's incisive "An Interview with John Dewey on Science Education" [Ansbacher (2000) <http://bit.ly/I89zmr> (click on "articles in pdf" at the top of the page)]. . *********************************************************** . Kevin Stacy (2012) in his AERA-C post "Bill Ayers 'exhumes' John Dewey for a conversation on progressive education" has pointed to an article "John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue" [Ayers & Schubert (2012)]. This is an edited transcript of a conversation between educators William C. Ayers (WCA) and William H. Schubert (WHS) with WHS, former president of the John Dewey Society <http://bit.ly/JrxTlF>, playing the role of John Dewey (JD). A full video of the conversation is also available at <http://on.fb.me/IND6lU>. . Here is an excerpt from the transcript [my CAPS]: . WCA: "Glenn Beck is a conservative commentator on television and radio. And BECK POSITS YOUR WORK AS THE DEVIL'S WORK IN EDUCATION, as a lot of conservatives do. . . . .this is what Beck (2010. p.xx) says about progressive education. Beck (2010) says: "Progressive education began with the goal of providing a nurturing environment that aimed at kids' hearts rather than their heads. The movement leader, John Dewey, was a champion of education reform and believed the whole 'teachers teach students facts' was so nineteenth century. ? Teachers aren't there to tell a child if he or she is right or wrong ? THEY'RE THERE TO HELP THE CHILD THROUGH A TOUCHY-FEELY PERIOD OF SELF-DISCOVERY." So that's how Glenn Beck characterizes your work. And even though it may seem extreme to an audience like this, I don't think it's far-fetched to think that a lot of people would reduce your ideas to terms like 'child-centered,' 'experience,' 'fun-not-facts.' So maybe you could comment on that. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . JD/WHS:. . . . . . In ("Experience and Education" (Dewey 1938, 1997) I argued that it was a mistake for the Progressive Education Association to split over social reconstruction on the one side and child-centeredness on the other side, and I was trying my best to get them to reconcile those differences. IN CONSIDERING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL AND PROGRESSIVE EDUCATION, WE SHOULDN'T JUST TAKE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, BUT WE SHOULD LOOK AT A DEEPER LEVEL WHERE THEY CAN BOTH BE INTEGRATED Throughout my whole career, in both philosophy and education, I strove to work on the resolution of dualistic thinking. To think progressive on the one side and traditional on the other side is a mistake. Experience, yes, but I hate the pejorative phrase "just experience" because experience is so powerful. And as a matter of fact, when I was thinking about my experiences at the Lab School about 10 years later, after I was at Columbia, and I wrote "Democracy and Education" (Dewey 1916), I arrived at what I thought was a definition of education. I said that education is "RECONSTRUCTION AND REORGANIZATION OF EXPERIENCE WHICH ADDS TO THE MEANING OF EXPERIENCE, AND WHICH INCREASES ABILITY TO DIRECT THE COURSE OF SUBSEQUENT EXPERIENCE." So I mean that's what education should be about - having students engage with teachers, asking the questions of what's worth knowing and learning and doing and being and becoming. What kind of life can and should I create? And why? Those are fundamental questions. The disciplines of knowledge and the areas of study all speak to those questions if you look deeply enough. So IT'S NOT JUST A CATERING TO INTERESTS, you see. . For an earlier exhumation of John Dewey, see Ted Ansbacher's incisive "An Interview with John Dewey on Science Education" [Ansbacher (2000) <http://bit.ly/I89zmr> (click on "articles in pdf" at the top of the page)]. . . . Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0> Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M> Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh> Academia: <http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake> Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/rrhake> . . . "The belief that all genuine education comes about through experience does not mean that all experiences are genuinely or equally educative." John Dewey (1938; 1997, p. 25) "Experience and Education" . ". . .the organized subject matter of the specialist represents the goal toward which education should continuously move." John Dewey (1938; 1997, p. 83) "Experience and Education" . . . REFERENCES [All URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 27 April 2012.] . . . Ansbacher, T. 2000. "An Interview with John Dewey on Science Education,";Phys. Teach. 38(4): 224-227, April; online to subscribers at <http://bit.ly/InrLvJ> and to all at Ansbacher's site <http://bit.ly/I89zmr> / "Articles in pdf" / "An interview with John Dewey" (where "/" means "click on"). A thoughtful and well-researched treatment showing the consonance of Dewey's educational ideas with the thinking of most current science-education researchers (as quoted straight from Dewey's own writings, not from the accounts of sometimes confused Dewey interpreters). . Ayers, W.C. & W.H. Schubert. 2012. "John Dewey Lives - A Dialogue," Schools: Studies in Education 9(1): 7-26; online at <http://bit.ly/Jp4bxF>. . Beck, G. & K. Balfe. 2010. "Arguing with Idiots: How to Stop Small Minds and Big Government." Thresholds Editions, publisher's information at <http://bit.ly/IIVlJv>, not the "Browse Inside" feature. Amazon.com information at <http://amzn.to/JKAO8A>, note the searchable "Look Inside" feature. . Dewey, J., 1916, 1997. "Democracy and Education." Free Press. First published in 1916 by Macmillan. Amazon.com information at <http://amzn.to/JrjsOm>, note the searchable "Look Inside" feature. Also online at <http://bit.ly/IK8rq1>, thanks to the "Institute for Learning Technologies." . Dewey, J. 1938, 1997. "Experience and Education." Free Press. First published in 1938 by Kappa Delta Pi. Amazon.com information at <http://amzn.to/IWJE19>, note the searchable "Look Inside" feature. Online as a 209 kB pdf at <http://bit.ly/J1gVIZ> prefaced by "The great educational theorist's most concise statement of his ideas about the needs, the problems, and the possibilities of education--written after his experience with the progressive schools and in the light of the criticisms his theories received," thanks to Nora Egan Demers of Florida Gulf Coast University. . Dewey, J. 1938, 1998. "Experience and Education - 60th Anniversary Edition." Kappa Delta Pi publications. Amazon.com information at <http://amzn.to/IegHkK>, note the searchable "Look Inside" feature. An expurgated Google book preview is online at <http://bit.ly/IeLGdV>. . Stacey, K. 2012. "Bill Ayers 'exhumes' John Dewey for a conversation on progressive education," online on the OPEN! AERA-C archives at <http://bit.ly/Iep6Ss>. Post of 24 Apr 2012 14:14:46-0400 to AERA-C. See also the Univ. of Chicago press release at <http://bit.ly/IdaI09>. . .