I got a nice reply to my post in the Canon group from a talented photographer in Toronto, Canada. He has a talent with words too! What you've written is quite interesting... and quite well written. With regard to your observation about people having one of two mindsets about photo-art, I'll just have to take your word for it, as I haven't solicited any opinions about this myself. But what you say won't surprise me, almost as if to say there's left brain dominant and right brain dominant folks, and that those of a more creative disposition seem more open to "photo-art", whereas those of more logical disposition are not so receptive to perceived departures from photographic reality. As for what you said about Jack Davis' comments, I found that very interesting and right on the mark. I know that for myself when I was younger, my camera was used just to record places, people and things that I'd seen. But that the longer I've been at this, the more I've come to think of images as visual statements, the kind where we take deliberate steps to best guide the viewer's attention to what we most want them to see. It's like the difference between rambling when we're talking (the kind of talk where, for example, someone might even ask, "What the hell are you talking about?") and the sort of discourse where we edit and choose our words carefully so that our communication is clear, direct, and doesn't leave much ambiguity as to what point we're trying to make. In the most practical of terms, it seems to me the process of making good images has much to do with the process of elimination -- that whereas a painter starts with a blank canvas and adds whatever he or she most wants to show, the work of the photographer has us starting with the chaos of a whole scene and then working in whatever ways make the subject matter better stand out by trying to eliminate (or at least minimize) any potential visual distractions. Much of this can be done during our camera work -- by, for example, getting ourselves closer to our subject matter, or picking a camera position which better helps minimize unwanted clutter, or perhaps using a wide angle lens to better help put a seeming distance between our subject and background, or using a longer lens to better help diminish clutter by throwing it out of focus. Many methods, at the time of shooting, to better help our chosen subject matter stand out. But the reality of many shooting instances is that we don't have complete control over the scene in terms of being able to eliminate (or minimize) unwanted potential distractions, and to this is seems reasonable that we might try to continue the work after the fact in our post-processing practices. To this end, I personally have no qualms in my Photoshop work to get rid of telephone poles, or hydro wires (which for me personally seem to be the perpetual bane of my existence LOL), or spot out certain reflective highlights, or darken down image edges, or crop an image to make it visually "tighter", or whatever else seems to me to otherwise potentially distract the viewer's attention from what I most want them to see. Of course, I say these comments with some hesitation because I don't want to at all imply that any Photoshop or post-processing work is ever any adequate substitute for being lazy with our camera work to begin with. To the contrary -- being caring about our camera work seems to me a critical part of making images which communicate with clarity, directness and impact. But to be honest, I always see these two things going hand in hand, not ever imagining I might make any good images if I'm lazy or uncaring with my camera work, nor ever imagining that even with my best day of shooting I would be happy with anything straight out of the camera without applying post-processing work. So yes, I find Jack Davis' comments quite interesting, or at the very least they seem congruent with what I've experienced myself in terms of what best helps to make images that communicate well with clarity, directness and good visual impact. Judy Howle Southern Exposures Photography http://southernexposure.zenfolio.com Digital Photography Class; photography information and resources http://digitalphotographyclass.net