The question though is are the pages you find misbehaving with vo
missbehaving at all without it?
On Dec 31, 2008, at 5:48 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:
Hey Travis et al;
No blame here, <smile> and excellent points!
Yes, the page will read when copied / pasted into TextEdit, as well
as wen one does a select all and reads with the system voice.
However, it just seems to be an issue where VO can't seem to grasp
what's displayed?…
My thoughts on WebKit come from other's exp in this, and not my own,
currently, so I'm sure open to suggestions. <smile>
For me though it doesn't seem that this is simply a VO issue though,
as turning VO off and then on again, has had no effect in any of
these cases for me, so I'd assume that since this only seems to take
care of itself after a refresh of the page, that there's something
else happening here aside from just VO not getting its data properly?
… Is something else not properly sending the data in essence, so
that VO can read it appropriately?…
Anyway, I'd assume that Apple already knows about this from many of
us on the list?… yes?…
Anyway, thanks again for your note and again, excellent points.
Have a terrific New Year's Eve!…
Rock!
Cara :)
On Dec 31, 2008, at 5:04 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I realize folks here (and elsewhere) are blaming this reloading
thing on webkit, but I am not convinced this is the problem.
Why?
Because, as has been pointed out several times, copy/paste of the
offending page into text edit or some other editing package still
renders the page properly.
If this were a web kit problem, the page should misbehave
regardless of what program it's droppped into, since they all use
the same apis to do their rendering.
I'm convinced it's something to do with the way vo is getting the
information from the page.
Again, why?
Because, this doesn't only happen under web page reloads.
I've also had vo loose focus so badly in other programs, including
text edit, finder, disk utility, mail, and others that the only
solution is to turn off voiceover, then turn it back on to get the
offending app to allow vo to read the contents of the screen
properly.
I'm sure every one here has seen this behavior.
You try to move around the screen, and all you get is bing noises,
because vo says there's nothing there.
This is exactly the same behavior, only on a slightly different
scale as the web page not being seen by vo.
Why does this happen?
I have no idea, but for the most part (at least with non-safari
related issues) it seems to happen after the system claims to be
busy for a bit, then whichever app was front-most when the system
recovers from it's busy state suddenly and inexplicably has these
issues.
I submit that the safari issue is a variation on a theme, (though
I've experienced the bing problem from safari too I might add).
Blaming it on webkit might rovide a focus for the complaints, but I
doubt it's the proper culprit in this case, since visually, the
pages are rendering fine, and (as mentioned above) cut/paste of the
content into another window allows the page to be navigated mostly
normally.
I realize it's an intermitent thing, and as a result, it makes it
darned near impossible to track down, even for someone running
debug versions of the kernel and fully profiled code, but I think
we should be addressing these issues to apple as vo ones, not
webkit ones.
Even if it is a webkit issue (which I doubt) we should still
address them to apple as vo issues, because for us, it's only a
problem when using vo, it's not an issue for sighted folks using
safari, shiira, camino, or any other browser which uses webkit.
And, because it's visually possible to move around and click on
things in these browsers, sighted folks aren't going to see this as
an issue no matter how much you complain about it.
Ergo, the vo team is the only one equipped to handle them, and
that's where the reports should go.
Of course, you should be as complete as possible, stating under
which conditions the problem occurred, where you were, what you
were doing, and so forth, being as polite as possible of course, so
at least we can get it looked at.
If enough folks report enough of these pages that misbehave, Apple
may eventually find a pattern, and be able to nail it down to an
offending semicolon or something equally simplistic. *grin*
Just my input on the matter, take it as you will.
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