J.E.: When I read Paul's post I rather agreed with him. But then I read the Guardian piece (url repeated here http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1361755,00.html ) I quote >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust". "Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote. "If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps." <<<<<<< I think that speaks for itself. O.K.: I don\t think that this removes the complaint that the author of these lines did not object to the behaviour because it caused suffering to a fellow human, but because it compromised the idea of the Jewish state. In other words, the objection is made from the standpoint of (Zionist) politics rather than (universal) ethics. From the latter standpoint, it would be perceived that there are more objectionable acts occuring daily in the territories. I think that Paul has correctly identified the mindset that guides much (though perhaps not all) of the so-called Zionist Left. I grant though that it is possible that the writer feels genuine moral outrage but is trying to frame it in terms that speak to his (or her) anticipated Zionist audience. O.K. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html