[lit-ideas] Re: What is information?

  • From: joerg benesch <jgruel@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:34:19 +0200

Well Confucius may have been deliberately vague concerning the existence of transzendente Idealwesen, yet at the center of his teaching there's the "rectification of names". This is supposed to mean "Let the ruler be ruler, the minister minister, the father father and the son son" (in the Lun Yu), where not the concepts had to fit their content, but the other way round; so it's like everybody has to live up to his concept.

This text from the Lun Yu looks much less harmless http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jendres/lunyu/ :

Tsze-lu asked,
   "If the Duke of Wei made you an advisor,
    what would you address as the very first priority?"

Confucius replied,
   "The most important thing
    is to use the correct words."
   "What?" Tsze-lu replied.
   "That's your first priority?  The right words?"

Confucius said,
   "You really are simple, Yu.
    The Sage keeps his mouth shut
    when he doesn't know what he's talking about!

   "If we don't use the correct words,
       we live public lies.
    If we live public lies,
         the political system is a sham.

   "When the political system is a sham,
         civil order and refinement deteriorate.
    When civil order and refinement deteriorate,
         injustice multiplies.
      As injustice multiplies,
         eventually the electorate is paralyzed
         by public lawlessness.

   "So the Sage takes for granted that he use the appropriate words,
      and follow through on his promises with the appropriate deeds.

   "The Sage must simply never speak lies."

So apart from a lot of semantic and ontological fallout it seems that The Master's political essentialism is quite up to date in this age of classified casus belli and embedded media. Remember the first thing the Nazis did, along with arbitrary detentions and baiting of "leftists", was the "Gleichschaltung" of the media, spoiling and corrupting the most cultivated of laguages up to this very day.

Hic et ille

Joerg Gruel

"Don't gimme google, gimme solutions!"


Donal McEvoy schrieb:
Yes, and this is true of 'triangles' also: what (in normal usage) "we call"
triangular will always have be three-sided, but there is no reason in logic
why we could not use the word 'triangle' to refer to a four-sided object
rather than a three-sided one. It is obviously true that a three-sided object
will be three-sided but it is only a convention of language what term or
terms we use to refer to such objects: insofar as we insist that triangle is
not "rightly so called" when used to refer to an object that is not
three-sided we are merely appealing to rightness in terms of such conventions
of usage. We can allow 'triangle' to be used otherwise without contradiction
but if it is used otherwise, say to refer to a four-sided object, we can
insist that certain consequences follow logically from this e.g. if the
speaker subsequently uses the term triangle to refer to a three-sided object
it is logically the case that they are not using the term 'triangle' in the
same sense in which they used it to refer to a four-sided object - they are
giving it a different meanning.
(...)

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