[lit-ideas] Re: The 'Near-Eastern' influences on the Greek philosophy, sc...

  • From: Michael Chase <goya@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:07:17 +0200

Le 12 avr. 04, =E0 10:30, Robert Paul a =E9crit :

> I wrote:
>
>> The Scholastics trusted Averroes more than they did Avicenna (whom=20
>> they
> rightly viewed as a pantheist).<
>
> Mike in Paris wrote:
>
> Would you care to elaborate on this claim, which I find surprising, if=20=

> not
> downright astonishing?
>
> Mr. Paul, in Lake Oswego, replies:
>
> Although this is certainly sloppy writing, I'm not certain Which part=20=

> of it
> astonishes Mike. That Avicenna was a pantheist was no secret,

M.C. I wasn't claiming the accusation was =93 a secret=A0=94. Groundless =
and=20
inane, yes, but a secret, no.

>  although
> apparently his major writing on the subject wasn't available to 'the=20=

> West' until
> his other writings had been introduced and discussed.

M.C. Which "major writing" might this be?
>
> In the Summa Contra Gentiles Aquinas does battle with both Avicenna =
and
> Averroes; with the latter especiallyand at length in Summa Contra=20
> Gentiles, II.
> 73,75 (Of God and His Creatures). Of course Thomas' writings do not=20
> exhaust
> Scholasticism! nor are the arguments in this section merely=20
> refutations of a
> suspected pantheism; yet the motive for not accepting the views of=20
> those outside
> the Church--and no other opponents of the day were on an intellectual=20=

> par with
> educated Arabs--seems to have been ideology, not disinterested logic.=20=

> I cannot
> detail my general claim at the moment (gotta dash) but it's something=20=

> I dimly
> remember from some of Peter Geach and Alan Donagan's discussions of=20
> Aquinas over
> 40 years ago--at a time when the traditional history of Western=20
> philosophy did
> not even mention Arabian contributions, except to thank them for=20
> preserving the
> Greek texts (which one got the impression they never read but kept=20
> stored away
> in a box of curiosities).
>
> That this happened--the replacement of even the most sophisticated=20
> commentaries
> by more politically correct ones--is mentioned a number of times in=20
> Catholic
> sources, and that is what interested me, for it was the Church that=20
> won the
> battle for authorship of the history of Western philosophy, and it's=20=

> what the
> Schoolmen thought their opponents thought that matters. Mike knows far=20=

> more
> about these issues than I, both in general and in detail, so I will=20
> await the
> reasons for his astonishment, which are no doubt compelling. But the=20=

> thesis I
> suggested has considerable explanatory power--or would if it were =
true.

M.C. Thanks to Robert for his learned reply. But I confess I'm still in=20=

the dark : What precisely are the Avicennian claims that led to the=20
accusation of pantheism? How widespread was this accusation? There=20
surely must be more to the claim than the alleged existence of a=20
title-free work that appears to have been unavailable to the West. If=20
the charge originates in Thomas, how well-acquainted was he with=20
Avicenna's works? What Avicennian works had been translated into Latin=20=

by Thomas' time, and what was the quality of these translations?

        By the way, the part that astonishes me is not that Avicenna has=20=

occasionally been held to be a pantheist; he has been held to be many=20
things, including a sorcerer. What I find astonishing is that a scholar=20=

of Robert's acuity *asserts that this accusation is true*. Now, I'm=20
sure Robert has clear and unambiguous evidence for this statement,=20
based not on hearsay nor on century-year-old Catholic-biased=20
encyclopedia articles, but on Avicenna's own words.

        Let's see this evidence.
>
>
Michael Chase
(goya@xxxxxxxxxxx)
CNRS UPR 76
7, rue Guy Moquet
Villejuif 94801
France

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