In a message dated 8/30/2004 6:23:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Is there an essential something to naturalness (ah, I hear JL grumbling awake at the sound: "essential") to distinguish those things brought about through "natural" bodily processes -- such as honey production -- and those things produced external to bodies but through the natural bodily processes of intellect, such as plastics? ---- Good question. One of Grice's claims to fame was, indeed, the drawing of the boundary between the 'natural' and, er, what, for lack of a better epithet, he called the 'non-natural'. There must be a lot online about this. (He set the distinction in an essay written in 1948, 'Meaning'. Of course, he was concerned with natural and non-natural meaning, but the distinction (he attempted to draw) is more general. In his later 'Meaning Revisited', he concluded that there is _no_ distinction between 'natural' and 'non-natural' (essential, anyways -- sic). In an attempt at bad humour, an online list that mentions the causes of deaths of some famous philosophers, Grice is mentioned as having died of "non-natural causes". It is good to distinguish between the 'artifact' and the 'natural'. Intellect would be, like a burp, a natural process. But making a plastic (an artifact) would be artifactual (or 'artificial', as M. Chase prefers). Cheers, JL ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html