[lit-ideas] Parrotting On
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:48:36 EDT
Geary says he's a parrot, and that I should stick to 5 posts a day. I'll
try. Indeed it's a good training to see if one can concentrate the material in
just 5 posts to deliver at the 'end of the day' (literally).
One thing that the '5 posts a day' constraint poses is that one is inhibited
of the freshness of replying "on the spot" to what somebody has said.
One case in point is Andreas Ramos. He calls my books "dusty" and refers to
an online research by a Professor Wanker, on South-American parrots which
call their 'chicks' by 'proper' names. I was interested even when I read that
the research was precedented (?) by similar one on dolphins, etc.
But back to the Parrot of Locke, I got access to the online version of the
Essay and see that Locke is merely (?) concerned with an definitional point.
He is testing the scholastic assumption:
"Man" (Homo) =df "Rational Animal" (Animal Rationalis)
What, he says, if we trust Prince Maurice (of the Netherlands) who swears
Locke he has held a rational conversation with an old Parrot brought to him
from
Brazil, and with which he conducted a conversation 'in Brazilian'.
Locke wants us to say that while we may come to believe that that Parrot is
another "Rational Animal", yet we wouldn't like to call the Parrot a "Man".
Therefore, "Man" is eventually disassociated of the idea of 'rational
animal', and such is ascribed to 'Person', rather. That is precisely the point
of
Grice in his rewrite of Locke. Rationality, which ascribes _accidentally_ to
men (for there are mad men) ascribes _essentially_ to _persons_.
But parrots are now part of the mythology. Cfr.
1965 Austral. Women's Weekly 20 Jan. 48/1 ‘I'll wait,’ he said. ‘He'll
wait,’ she parroted.
and the earlier
1671 _E. HOWARD_
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-h4.html#e-howard)
Six Days Adventure I. 8 Soly: You may be Taken notice
on for a Patriot of your countrey. Merid: A Parrot rather, for in my sence he
talks by roat.
After calling Locke a 'stupid idiot', Geary feels he has refuted him.
1912 _‘R. ANDOM’_
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-a2.html#r-andom)
Neighbours of Mine 194 Go and get me some breakfast
and don't stand there parroting about the kind of drunk you prefer.
Geary writes:
>How does Locke know what parrots are thinking. I'd say a parrot is
>thinking:
>
> "If I say, 'Polly wants a cracker'
> this stupid idiot will give me one"
>
-- which is a conditional thought, no doubt about it.
Cfr.
1872 _F. HALL_
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-h.html#f-hall)
Rec. Exempl. False Philol. 31 The verb experience is, to
Mr. White, parroting Dean Alford, altogether objectionable.
Well, Locke is slightly subtler, and for those interested in the founder of
the John Locke Lectures at Oxford (Grice gave the 1977 ones), here is the
relevant passage from the "Essay" of 1690
_http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/locke/john/l81u/B2.27.html_
(http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/l/locke/john/l81u/B2.27.html)
"An animal (such as a man, or a parrot) is a living organized body;
and consequently the same animal is the same continued life
communicated to different particles of matter. And whatever is
talked of other definitions, ingenious observation puts it past doubt,
that *the idea in our minds*, of which the sound, 'Man' in *our mouths*
is the sign, is nothing else but of an '[Rational] Animal' of such
a certain form. Since I think I may be confident, that, whoever
should see a creature of his own shape or make, though it had
no more reason all its life than *a parrot*, would call
him still a 'Man'; or whoever should hear a parrot *discourse, reason,
and philosophize*, would call or think it nothing but a 'Parrot'; and say,
the one was a dull irrational 'Man,' and the other "A very intelligent
rational
Parrot". A relation we have in an author of great note, is sufficient
to countenance the supposition of a rational parrot.
The anecdote about the Brazilian parrot comes later on:
"of an old parrot he had in Brazil, during his government there, that spoke,
and asked, and answered common questions, like a reasonable creature: so
that those of his train there generally concluded it to be witchery or
possession; and one of his chaplains, who lived long afterwards in Holland,
would
never from that time endure a parrot, but said they all had a devil in them."
Locke goes on to report the conversation between Prince Maurice and the
Parrot from Brazil. Locke explains: "[The parrot spoke] in Brazilian. I asked
the Prince if he understood Brazilian; he said No, but he had taken care to
have two interpreters by him, the one a Dutchman that spoke Brazilian, and the
other a Brazilian that spoke Dutch". The dialogue went as follows:
Prince Maurice, "D’ou venez-vous?"
Parrot, "De Marinnan"
Prince Maurice, "A qui estes-vous?"
Parrot, "A un Portugais"
Prince Maurice, "Que fais-tu la?"
Parrot, "Je garde les poulles"
Prince Maurice, "Vous gardez les poulles?"
Parrot, "Oui, moi; et je scai bien faire"
Locke wonders:
"I ask any one else who thinks such a story fit to be told, whether, if this
parrot had talked, as we have a prince’s word for it whether they would not
have passed for a race of rational animals; but yet, whether, for all that,
they would have been allowed to be "Men", and not "Parrots"? For I presume it
is not the idea of a thinking or rational being alone that makes the idea of
a 'Man' in most people’s sense: but of a body, so and so shaped, joined to
it: and if that be the idea of a 'Man,' the same successive body not shifted
all at once, must, as well as the same immaterial spirit, go to the making of
the same man
A good reference here is
Moulder, J. "Locke's Parrot", Philosophy
(1973):http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0031-8191(197304)48%3A184%3C183%3AFSALP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-F
which relies on
Flew, A. G. N. "Locke and the problem of personal identity" (Philosophy,
1951).
Another reference is more recent
Walmsey, P. "Prince Maurice's Rational Parrot", Eighteenth Century Studies
and there's also the (unchecked):
_The Parrot's Voice: Language and the Self in Robinson Crusoe_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/view/00132586/dm991257/99p02975/0?currentResult=
00132586+dm991257+99p02975+0,171E02&searchUrl=http://www.jstor.org/search/Basi
cResults?hp=25&si=1&gw=jtx&jtxsi=1&jcpsi=1&artsi=1&Query=Locke+Parrot&wc=on)
_Eric Jager_ (http://0-www.jst
or.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/search/BasicResults?Search=Search&Query=aa:"Eric
Jager"&hp=25&si=1&wc=on)
_Eighteenth-Century Studies_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/browse/00132586) > _Vol. 21, No.
3_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/browse/00132586/dm991257) (Spring,
1988),
_I Am a Parrot (Red)_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/view/00182710/ap030033/03a00040/0?currentResult=00182710+ap030033+03a00040+0,7F5777&;
searchUrl=http://www.jstor.org/search/BasicResults?hp=25&si=1&gw=jtx&jtxsi=1&j
cpsi=1&artsi=1&Query=Locke+Parrot&wc=on)
_Jonathan Z. Smith_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/search/BasicResults?Search=Search&Query=aa:"Jonathan
Z. Smith"&hp=25&si=1&wc=on)
_History of Religions_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/browse/00182710) > _Vol. 11, No.
4_
(http://0-www.jstor.org.csulib.ctstateu.edu/browse/00182710/ap030033) (May,
1972),
Incidentally this overlaps with our discussion on 'training'. The OED has
"parrot teacher"
n. a person who trains parrots to speak
and gives a rather recent quote:
2002 Independent (Nexis) 31 Aug. 10 Although in ancient Rome it was often
the responsibility of the household slave to teach the parrot to talk,
professional parrot teachers offered a service too.
Other interesting quotes seem to be:
1806 _T. HOLCROFT_
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-h3.html#t-holcroft)
Vindictive Man II. i. 13 It was you that parroted
my daughter to plead for Maitland. 1827 _C. LAMB_
(http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-l.html#c-lamb)
Let. 4 Oct. (1935) III.
137 We are parroted into delicacy. 1890 Sat. Rev. 15 Feb. 196/2 The rank and
file are tutored and parroted by author, by manager, or by state-manager.
From Andreas' link we read:
"The small South American parrots also apparently have name calls for their
mates. The birds very definitely use a particular call exclusively with a
particular bird and never for any other bird,' says Dr. Rolf Wanker, head of
the
Hamburg University Zoological Institute's behavioural research laboratory.
Wanker and his team..."
I'm sure R. Paul may provide the Latin for the Parrot Prof. Wanker is
referring to. I know it's the order of Pscitaciformes, but I'm not too good at
describing the genus and species of the different types of parrots. (I'll
probably will when I get hold of this book I plan to order on Edward Lear's
"parrots" for my postcard collection). (Yes, I collect postcards, which I
receive at
the Hall below).
And the parrot, with a smile, said a soft, "Good night, and may your dreams
be sweet".
Cheers,
JL
J. L. Speranza, Esq.
Town:
Calle Arenales 2021, Piso 5, St. 8,
La Recoleta C1124AAE,
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Tel. 54 11 4824 4253
Fax 54 221 425 9205
Country:
St. Michael Hall,
Calle 58, No. 611,
La Plata B1900 BPY
Provincia de Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Tel. 54 221 425 7817
Fax 54 221 425 9205
http://www.stmichaels.com.ar
jls@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
http://www.netverk/~jls.htm
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