[lit-ideas] Re: Mastiffs in our backgrounds
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:28:22 -0500
So are you an animal lover in general, or just dogs?
I learned several years ago to keep my children far, far away from the
pound....
Julie Krueger
On 8/5/07, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I probably mentioned at some point that Susan and I have always had
> Rhodesian Ridgebacks. When her illness progressed to a point where she
> could no longer work, I insisted that we get a protective dog to be home
> with her while I was at work. We were living in a condo at the time and I
> suggested a condo-sized dog; specifically, the Irish Terrier and the
> Standard Schnauzer, but she said "a dog isn't a real dog unless it is big."
> So after much debate we narrowed the selection down to the Rottweiler, the
> German Shepherd and the Rhodesian Ridgeback and then went to the Beverly
> Hills Dog show to see these breeds. She had never seen a Rhodesian
> Ridgeback or a Rottweiler before. The Rottweiler (also with Mastiff in its
> ancestry) had just been shown and the breeders were walking them out to
> their vans and trailers. Some of them were lunging at passers by. Susan
> decided they were ugly. The German Shepherds had been shown earlier that
> day, but that was okay. She knew what they looked like. The Rhodesian
> Ridgebacks were about to be shown. She fell instantly in love with that
> breed at first sight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback.
>
> And interestingly, there is Mastiff in the background of the Rhodesian
> Ridgeback as well. The original Rhodesian Ridgeback that gained fame for
> its ability to hold African lions at bay until hunters showed up weren't as
> big as they are at present. The ideal male circa 1900 weighed 75 pounds and
> the female 65 or 70. They needed to be fast and wise enough to escape the
> lions charges but have jaws strong enough to hurt the lion when they
> nipped them on the rump. And, most importantly, they needed to be unafraid
> of lions. Very few breeds, if any, met those qualifications. The Rhodesian
> Ridgeback as a consequence became famous in Africa. Everyone, so it seemed,
> wanted one, and in the 1920s some fanciers standardized the breed, with the
> male weighing 75 pounds.
>
> At some point hunting lions with dogs was abandoned and as the Ridgeback
> was exported to other places some breeders thought it desirable that the
> Ridgeback be given more size; so the Mastiff was introduced. The Mastiff
> increase in size was then kept but the Mastiff look was bred out; although
> Canadian and English Rhodesians are purported to have a more mastiffy look
> than American Rhodesians. The new size standard was approximately 85 pounds
> with no penalty if they were larger as long as they were proportionately
> proper -- "proper" meant having the Dalmatian proportions. At the present
> time, as I understand it, Ridgeback males winning shows weigh between 90 and
> 95 but no judge at a show actually weighs them. I have had two males in the
> past and both weighed between 90 and 95. I presently have two females who
> weigh only slightly less than the males -- if at all, but they are very well
> built. That is, they both retain the Dalmatian proportions more or less; so
> who cares if the Ridgeback weight more closely approaches the Mastiff than
> it used to?
>
> Another breed I have been interested in from time to time is the Anatolian
> Shepherd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_Shepherd_Dog. It also
> has Mastiff in its background. Whereas the AKC standard for a Bullmastiff
> male is 130 pounds, for the Anatolian Shepherd it is 150 although no one
> weighs an Anatolian either. My male Ridgebacks were about 28 inches at the
> withers, but the Anatolian is more than that, 30 inches or more is
> apparently common. The English Mastiff is slightly taller and larger (30
> inches or more, with the "more" being more than the Anatolian and 160 pounds
> or more). The reasons the Anatolian is attractive to me are 1) as I
> mentioned, they haven't much of a prey drive, 2) they have traditionally
> been content to walk alongside the shepherd as he follows the sheep from
> pasture to pasture (something I would appreciate on my long walks on the
> river or in the mountains) and 3) they are much longer-lived than other
> large breeds. The Mastiff, the Bullmastiff, the Rottweiler and the Boxer,
> for example, are very short-lived: 6-8 years is common.
>
> Years ago I saw a Mastiff at an Animal Shelter. He dwarfed the cage he
> was in, and he looked miserable. I guessed him at more than 36 inches at
> the withers and 200 pounds. I had an instant Quixotic need to make sure
> this dog was not destroyed; so I went into the office and inquired. I was
> told that three or four people had put their names on the list to adopt the
> dog if the owner didn't show. I don't recall whether I added my name to the
> list, but I checked later and found out the owner had retrieved his
> Mastiff. I didn't have a large car at the time. I would have needed to
> remove my rear seat to transport him home. We were still living in the
> condo at the time. Susan has attempted to discourage these mysterious (to
> her) visits to Pounds.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> ------------Original Message------------
> From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, Aug-5-2007 5:07 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Kant's Mastiffs
>
> >They turned out to be Preso
> >Canerios, 'Canary Island Dogs,'
>
> an English Mastiff cross. The Fila Brasileiro ('Brazilian Mastiff'?)
> is a more complex cross.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Paul" <rpaul@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 11:31 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Kant's Mastiffs
>
>
> > A Bullmastiff is an ancient cross between the English Mastiff, like
> > the one you saw, and a Bulldog. It isn't supposed to weigh 200
> > pounds as one of Rhames Bullmastiff's does but only 130 pounds. It
> > isn't supposed to be as high at the withers as an English Mastiff.
> > It was developed to knock a poacher down and hold him for the
> > game keeper.
>
> 'English Mastiff' is another name for a plain old Mastiff, which is,
> as Lawrence says, a bit larger than a Bullmastiff. (The origin of the
> English Mastiff is simply 'antiquity,' while Bullmastiffs date only from
> the 1800s.) Any Bullmastiff that weighs 200 lbs. should go on a
> diet. There are numerous mastiffs: French, Argentine, Brazilian,
> Spanish, and Neapolitan (Mastino Neapolitano); most of them were bred
> for guarding, hunting, or dog fighting. The Encyclopedia of the Dog
> says that the Neapolitano is a 'superb drooler.'
>
> Rhames is said to have Bullmastiffs, and a Brazilian Mastiff (Fila
> Brasileiro), of which he is especially fond because these dogs had been
> 'slave catchers'; he is embracing this dog, 'Kong,' at
>
> http://www.usmagazine.com/second_ving_rhames_pos
>
> The dogs that attacked and killed Diane Whipple outside her San
> Francisco apartment in 2001 were initially described as Mastiffs,
> Bullmastiffs, and English Mastiffs. They turned out to be Preso
> Canerios, 'Canary Island Dogs,' although one site says that they were
> a 'rare cross' between Presos and Bullmastiffs. Reporters and the
> police are seldom dog experts, and often dog owners are not themselves
> sure of which breeds they own.
>
> Kant always wanted a dog but he believed the leash laws in Königsberg
> denied dogs their autonomy and settled for a parakeet.
>
> Robert Paul
> and the aging Terriers
>
>
>
>
>
>
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