Julie: "Have you ever had an idea you had a good deal of trouble putting into words, explaining to someone? An intuitive kind of idea? An "aha" moment?" Reminds me (slightly) of "A Mad Tea Party" "'You should say what you mean,' the March Hare went on. 'I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least--at least I mean what I say--that's the same thing, you know.' `Not the same thing a bit!' Here we have two realms, perhaps three SAYING MEANING THINKING (expressiong) (intending to say) A B C Under normal circumstances, the only behavioural evidence we have is the utterer _having said_ something or otherwise expressed it. SAYING MEANING THINKING (expressiong) (intending to say) [Zero] B C This above would represent what Julie Krueger has as the 'aha' moment. She has the thought, she has the intention to say it, but she won't. Therefore, there's no evidence, and no way of telling. She may complain: "Oh, ... but it is an 'aha' thing. I have it on the tip of my tongue. It was to do with some color ... or an obsolete word ... or a song my father used to sing..." Etc.-- AND *THAT* constitutes behavioural evidence, out of which we can create a set of meanings and a set of thinkings. But not if she remains silent, as Wittgenstein often did, and in the middle of the paying seminars, too. Cheers, JL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com