[lit-ideas] Fw: Correction Re: Religion/State
- From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:18:03 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
I got my Sullivan's mixed up. Suliman fought against Richard the Lion Heart.
He wasn't even a Turk. Attaturk secularized Turkey. Turkey today is run more
by the military, more like Indonesia.
Andy Amago
-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Oct 30, 2004 10:43 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Religion/State, was Vote Bush if...
I'll have to dig up the link (audio, which people on this list don't like). I
heard it while driving. But before we assume that the Washington Post reporter
was full of baloney, let's see if we can work this out. Am I wrong in saying
this scenario works for Italy, Spain, England, Germany and other countries? In
France, the Catholic Church was historically highly political, was it not? The
nobility sat to the king's right, the wealthy merchant class sat to his left,
and the church would also preside (don't make me look up on which side of the
king the church representatives sat). Is it safe to say that the revolution
broke the back of the connection and that connection never reestablished? The
way I would say the Russian church never really came back strong once the
Soviet Union fell. It's back, certainly, but decades of atheist ingraining
have taken their toll.
Regarding Turkey, it has been secular only in the 20th century when Suliman
forced secularization. I wouldn't consider Turkey fundamentally religious.
Andy Amago
-----Original Message-----
From: Didier Agid <dagid@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Oct 30, 2004 10:31 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Religion/Stated, was Vote Bush if...
There are only 2 countries where religion and State are officially
separeted, and where the separation is written in the Constitution : France
and... Turkey.
"God bless American" equivalent ("Dieu benisse la France") is unthinkable in
a presidential speech. Still, we are the Western country where citizens take
their religion less seriously. Sorry, I can't follow you this time...
Didier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 4:10 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Religion/Stated, was Vote Bush if...
> I heard an interesting discussion yesterday on religion and the state.
The U.S. is a very religious country by Western standards. 60-70% of
Americans take their religion seriously. Something like 10% of Europeans
do. One of the reasons put forth is the fact that in Europe the state and
church are often connected. In the U.S. we have constitutional separation
of church and state. It was suggested that when institutions are
nationalized, interest is lost. Ironically, the very attempt by
fundamentalist Christians in this country through the Bush administration to
unite the Christian faith with the constitution may signal its demise as it
goes from a religious to a political institution. Indeed, the expression
(said by ???) that power corrupts but absolute power corrupts absolutely was
said about the Catholic church.
>
> They didn't mention that in Iran the state and religion are connected. My
personal explanation is that the Muslim religion differs from Western
religions in that it is so much more authoritarian that it becomes life
itself, and therefore cannot be compared to the West.
>
>
> Andy Amago
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Oct 30, 2004 8:59 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Vote Bush if...
>
> You guys tell it to Theoria (Tom Hart et al) -- I'm afraid to. A hand
would
> likely come through my computer monitor and rip my head off. I keep
trying
> to figure out how to explain to my kids why all their Christian friends'
> parents are for Bush (or have I mentioned this already?). The Baptists
because
> he's an alleged Evangelical; the Catholics because of the stem cell and
right
> to life issues. <sigh>
>
> Julie Krueger
> trying not to despair
>
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