--- Phil Enns <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Again, the nonsense is yours. I clearly wrote that > the authority of the > state lies with the particular form under which > people order themselves > under government. Obviously, except to Omar, this > means that people can > alter the particular form of government. *No, this is not obvious. If the authority of state is reducible to a particular form of government, then it's not clear how the government can be changed without ruining the state authority. This is arguably what happened in states like the USSR or the former Yugoslavia. While we would all probably prefer to see different outcomes, I don't see how Phil's formulation permits them. Also, how "people order themselves" is not necessarily tantamount to moral justification for a state. This is particularly evident in case of states like Israel or the US or Canada where the people who "order themselves" got there by expelling or exterminating or subjugating other peoples. The populations may be allowed to make democratic choices, but those populations were pre-selected on some other principle. > I understand why Omar might be interested in a > free-floating > understanding of the authority of the state, free > from all the > difficulties of material conditions, since it > permits the ideological > critique that informs so much of his commentary on > Israel and the U.S. > Sadly, most of those he so boldly defends, including > the Palestinians > and Iraqis, are hardly served by such critique. *I take it that not all of Phil's comments here are meant to advance the political interests of Canadians or Americans or Israelis. I wish that he would give me credit of not assuming that all of my comments are meant to advance the political interests of Palestinians or Iraqis, or other groups. > They have to deal with > the realities of conflicting interests competing for > government. *Yes they do. But the internal political arrangements of the Palestinians or Iraqis or other Arab nations have little to do with the legitimacy of their national interests. Even if my neighbour is a drunkard, that doesn't mean that I have the right to shit in his yard. O.K. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html