Sorry for the dull subject-line; I should re-read L. Helm's original post on the Civil War. In any case, checking, in a rush, with wiki, I see that in the "Civil War" entry there is a short section on 'causes of secession' and a link to another entry, "Origins of the Civil War", from where I read: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War) "As a panel of historians emphasized in 2011, "while slavery and its various and multifaceted discontents were the primary cause of disunion, it was disunion itself that sparked the war."[1] States' rights and the tariff issue became entangled in the slavery issue, and were intensified by it.[2] Other important factors were party politics, abolitionism, Southern nationalism, Northern nationalism, expansionism, sectionalism, economics and modernization in the Antebellum period." My knowledge of philosophy of history is primitive -- Grice never engaged me there! But I recall some bibliography, say, by von Wright, and others, on 'explanation' in history. Pretty complex. Hence the point about 'philosophy of history', i.e. how philosophers conceptualise things like 'causes' in history. I recall this reference to Carr's "Cleopatra's Nose". So, in the case of the Civil War in the USA we seem to have a clear case of some controversy (what would life be without it?) about the alleged 'cause' of this or that. I wouldn't know if L. Helm agrees with the contents of the two links in wiki referred above, and in what ways his original post is meant to contradict the main points in the "established" (if that is what it is) view about the causes ("why") of the Civil War --. I realise that L. Helm is just as interested in HOW it was fought, and not just why. The point in the wiki, "Origins" entry, about historians debating in 2011 about this or that cause seem pretty elucidatory as to why philosophers find references to 'cause' in history complex. In general, 'cause' was restricted to explanations in _NATURAL_ sciences, rather than social sciences. In Social Sciences, the idea of agent's intentions seemed more relevant. Yet Grice, in "Actions and Events", points out that, in its original sense, "aitia", in Greek -- i.e. cause -- was never meant as a physical process. Indeed, it is in expressions like, "a rebel without a cause" where 'cause' is used in its original (and indeed, only) sense. A 'cause' is a cause to act. So, the main point would be to relate those complex causes, as alleged in the case of the Civil War, to the different agents involved. The "Origins" entry has a corollary with further bibliography, where the main controversial item is the point about 'slavery' getting minimised as counting as the main cause (or why). And so on. Cheers, Speranza ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html