I won't say we have narrowed it down to either a Juno packing problem or a bad sector in the hard drive, but those are the only prominent suspects in my mind. > I shut Juno down. Then I get the desktop back > (with the icons, same as when I first turn it on). > Why should I wait before doing the shut down? Since it works for me, maybe it will work for you. I think, when Juno 4 has folder packing to do, it gives us back the desktop and does the work in a background task that is not listed in Task List. That way, we can start using the computer for other purposes. No big deal on modern fast hardware, but on our old slow computers it makes a difference which becomes obvious when we try to close Windows before the background packing is done. > Yes, I think it is a hard drive problem. Easy enough, usually. Just have to run Scandisk, which is an easy program as explained in elementary Windoze books or in Windows Help if you click on Start, Help, and search for "testing disk". If you prefer to wait a few weeks for a nice day, I can bicycle to your home and sit behind you while you start Scandisk. That's something I do all the time in return for a good meal. Well, not often for something as easy and pleasant as Scandisk, but if you're afraid of Scandisk then this method can run it. If there is a hard drive problem that Scandisk cannot fix, the time comes to think of replacing the drive or the whole computer. I have replaced plenty of hard drives and do not recommend you undertaking it. Replacing a computer does not take great skill or an automobile. It isn't as heavy or difficult to carry as a monitor. You are strong enough to haul it from your local shopping district on a luggage cart, and smart enough to follow the big chart that says how to plug it in. If you don't like the computers you can buy locally, you can haul one on the subway or have Dell or other mail order company deliver it to a local mailbox store. If you want help in shopping on a weekend or early on a weekday afternoon, I can steer you away from excessively expensive models. The main problems with a new computer are, it costs money and runs a modern operating system. It also requires shopping, plugging in, storing accessories (especially software discs and paperwork) so they won't get lost, and installing the applications. Each of those items is more scary than Scandisk. To unsubscribe, send a message to ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe juno_accmail" in the body or subject. OR visit //freelists.org ~*~