Re: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
- From: Chris Skarstad <toonhead5@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:47:48 -0500
Howdy Greg
Relax, man! No need to go on the defensive there.
I hadn't read all my mail at the time i had posted the message so i didn't
realize what the real problem was. it sounds to me like the real problem
lise when you try to set up a passport account within msn 5 itself. for
some odd reason JAWS does not like a certain part of the process and dies
on you which can be frustrating. I got my passport via passport.com and
while I found it difficult to sign up with their process via the audio file
being garbeled, i was able to sign up and get one without much help from
sighted folks. I know others might not have such good luck and that's
certainly fine. So again, I was not in any way saying you were innept or
inexperienced with computers, it's just that the particular message I read
wasn't the original which I hadn't read which explained the problem in more
detail. My lesson in all this is to read the entire conversation before
posting.
At 08:24 AM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
>a. Installing, as in running the setup and getting MM5 installed is not the
>issue.
>b. You cannot just keep hitting "Next" on any installer or configuration
>wizard if there is anything you want to change. I can't say "Next" when I
>need to select a different option button in a cluster and JAWS crashes for
>whatever reason it did. You are welcome to assume my system is unstable,
>but I'm telling you it isn't and I should know, I've been messing with
>computers since 1982. Sure there are others who have done it longer, but my
>lengthy experience has to count for something whether you agree with it or
>not.
>c. If the companies making software were doing their job right, they could
>eliminate at least 90% of the problems users experience. I've also been
>developing software for many years and find it odd that in all that time
>I've never been bombarded with support calls, and I've had all levels of
>users on my software so there's no point there to argue.
>d. It has been recommended to me, and I have to go on that until I have
>experience to the contrary, that MSN Messenger 5 isn't the best choice for
>Windows XP. In my original post on this topic I mentioned in the second
>paragraph what exact version of JAWS I was using and what OS - Windows XP.
>e. Just because some users don't experience a problem can be due to a lot of
>things, as I have learned over the years of dealing with users problems.
>Experienced users do have problems from time to time too, and often are so
>close to the problem that they can't see other avenues of resolution. It is
>not easy for me to ask for help, but I know when to do that rather than
>continue to bang my head against a wall. Sometimes intelligence is knowing
>when to admit failure and ask for help.
>
>I hope I've made myself clear. This is not being touchy or sensitive, but
>when people assume they know or have all the right answers it needs to be
>pointed out that their are flaws in their assumptions. Also, the problem
>has been resolved to my satisfaction, and I posted this on the list as soon
>as possible after sufficient testing.
>-Greg Epley
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Skarstad" <toonhead5@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
>
>
> > why are you guys having such a hard time? msn 5.0 has a simple instalation
> > program. you just keep hitting the next button until it installs. not sure
> > where the difficulties lie.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:06 AM 4/24/2004, you wrote:
> > >To avoid the setting up of an hot mail account I finally rsorted to
>having a
> > >sighted person install MSN messenger5.0, and It has worked fine since
>that
> > >time. I was unable to install it successfully witha screen reader.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Greg Epley" <gregepley@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 11:27 AM
> > >Subject: Install of MSN Messenger 5 causing JAWS problems
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > After reading recently that MSN Messenger was a good accessible
>messaging
> > > > client for Windows XP, I downloaded the XP version from the JFWLite
> > >Programs
> > > > page, along with the scripts.
> > > >
> > > > I am running JAWS 5.00.844 on Windows XP Home with all the critical
> > >updates
> > > > and SP1 installed, and experiencing no other system problems prior to
>this
> > > > install of MSN Messenger 5.0.
> > > >
> > > > I installed the scripts and then ran the MSN Messenger 5 setup
>program.
> > > > Everything went fine with that.
> > > >
> > > > After MSN Messenger was able to start, I went to the Sign In and began
>the
> > > > passport account setup.
> > > >
> > > > From reading the wizard pages, it sounded like I could register my
>regular
> > > > ISP email account rather than setting up a Hotmail account.
> > > >
> > > > While trying to select a different radio button in the cluster on one
>of
> > >the
> > > > wizard pages to let me do this, I heard the Windows Default beep sound
>and
> > > > JAWS went mute. I've had this happen before and after starting
>Narrator,
> > > > discovered that JAWS had an application error with the Send/Don't Send
> > > > buttons.
> > > >
> > > > I gracefully shut down the MSN Messenger wizard and was finally able
>to
> > >get
> > > > the system shut down.
> > > >
> > > > At restart JAWS started as usual. I again tried to go through the
>wizard
> > > > and JAWS crashed again.
> > > >
> > > > I decided on the next restart to disable JAWS st startup and did so,
>then
> > >I
> > > > launched Narrator. I began having some problems getting the wizard to
> > >read
> > > > well with Narrator and tried to start JAWS with my hotkey.
> > > >
> > > > JAWS said nothing. It was running, but a sighted person helped me
>verify
> > > > that the menus in JAWS read Options, Utilities, Help - the Language
>menu
> > >was
> > > > nonexistent and JAWS was frozen.
> > > >
> > > > I restarted the system and JAWS didn't try to start at startup as it
>had
> > > > been configured. I tried my hotkey and JAWS tried to load but again
>was
> > > > missing the Language menu. There was no speech on either version.
> > > >
> > > > After another restart I tried running a repair on JAWS from
>Installation
> > > > Maintenance. Still no improvement, although I was able to tell JAWS 5
>to
> > > > start automatically at Windows startup.
> > > >
> > > > After restart JAWS began speaking again. I use a SAPI 4 engine so I
> > > > unloaded JAWS and tried to launch it not as a service so I could use
>the
> > > > SAPI 4 detect. JAWS spoke, but when I tried to use SAPI 4 detect it
> > >froze.
> > > >
> > > > I restarted and went into Add/Remove Programs to remove MSN Messenger,
>and
> > > > successfully removed it. I then restarted and ran Disk Cleanup,
>checking
> > >to
> > > > clean up any items that I thought might be causing Windows to run some
> > > > application in the temporary files or other areas that might be
> > >interfering.
> > > > That was also successful.
> > > >
> > > > After another restart, I tried to again run JAWS not as a service and
>use
> > > > SAPI 4 detect. It froze again. I haven't tried JAWS 4.51 again at
>this
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > I thought I'd write here first and see if anyone had any suggestions
>at
> > >this
> > > > point, because I know FS isn't going to respond to me likely before
> > >Tuesday
> > > > or Wednesday, and I can't stand this Elloquence voice until then.
> > > >
> > > > My options at this point are to attempt to remove and delete JAWS 5
> > > > completely from the hard drive, then try to reinstall it and hope I
>can
> > >run
> > > > it not as a service long enough to get my SAPI 4 engine detected. I
>had
> > >no
> > > > problems with this before, but for whatever reason it doesn't like
> > >something
> > > > in my system now and I can't pin down what could be interfering. I
>have
> > > > installed a number of applications since that time, but since I wasn't
> > > > having any problems with unloading and restarting JAWS 5 or JAWS 4.51
> > >until
> > > > after this MSN Messenger mess, I have to assume that did something to
>my
> > > > system, and so I don't see where reinstalling JAWS is going to fix it.
> > > >
> > > > My other option is to back things up and reinstall my whole system and
> > >never
> > > > try to install MSN Messenger (any version). Once a software spooks me
> > >like
> > > > this during install, I'm obviously very hesistant to trust it in the
> > >future.
> > > > I generally have a very stable system and software that causes these
>kinds
> > > > of problems, I don't care how well they work for others, gets a bad
>rating
> > > > in my book.
> > > >
> > > > I can understand if most people here haven't had problems, but
>obviously
> > >MSN
> > > > Messenger started some progression of events since I hadn't been
>having
> > >any
> > > > problems until then.
> > > >
> > > > I'll see what responses I get here, and depending on the response I'll
>try
> > > > and email to FS support sometime tomorrow.
> > > > -Greg Epley
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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