[jawsscripts] Re: HANDLING NON-SPEAKING CHECKED/UNCHECKED STATUS OF ITEMS, WAS Framing Easy CD-DA Extractor
- From: "Jackie McBride" <abletec@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 09:14:52 -0700
Geoff:
Tooltip reading in most apps is a real pita simply because a lot of
extraneous info is spoken, especially in those which already have good
access. On the other hand, in those that don't, tooltips can be a
lifesaver if & only if (sounds like geometry, doesn't it?) the
programmer has built that facility in2 the program to begin
with--else, you're back at square1. & it does not usually indicate
checked/unchecked status of something. Having said all that, in some
applications, it can provide excellent access where other techniques
don't. But I usually turn it on in order to label graphics & then turn
it off again.
On 3/5/08, Geoff Chapman <gch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> hi lenny.
>
> wow! great! I'm very glad this worked for you. and sounds like you struck it
> luckier than me, where the graphics denoting the checked or unchecked
> status, were the same for every title! that's much nicer than my audio
> grabber, where, as I indicated, every title for some bizzarre reason, had
> it's own unique checked and unchecked status graphic! your sitch is much
> more the norm though, so I'm glad you got out of that one so easily.
>
> Yes it seems many people who teach jaws, don't get into showing people those
> little caveats of setting graphics mode to all and then labelling them
> appropriately when you've worked out a method for knowing which is what.
>
> Here's another tip I will pass on that you might find useful. jaws has a
> function called ToolTip reading, which is by default, disabled. I think
> this is a mistake. Windoweyes on the other hand, has this turned on by
> default, which, conversely, I feel is not a mistake. <smile.>
> they also turn unlabelled graphics on by default, though curiously, they
> don't number their graphics as jaws does, which is something I never
> understood how people cope using windoweyes because of that. I've been
> meaning to write to doug about it for ages but never remember til I'm
> talking about it here. anywayz, back to my point. in my view, enabling
> ToolTip reading across the whole system, i.e. globally, can be a really
> helpful thing to do, when exploring programs with jaws cursor/mouse. since
> what it does, is, enables the auto reading of any popup messages, toolTips,
> that the program may've been nice enough to provide the sightlings, when
> mouse hovers over certain graphical symbols, or even over what jaws thinks
> are blank areas of the screen, but which may be quite clickable to perform
> certain functions etc.
> That's where hotSpot clicker comes in, but tha'ts a discussion for another
> day.
>
> http://www.hotspotclicker.org
>
> I reckon real cool tool!
>
> you can see how handy this could be, if/when programs did this,coz it
> enables the blind user in some situations, to determine what certain
> graphics do.
> Jaws has a feature called Graphics AutoLabelling, jawsKey+control+G, but, I
> don't personally recommend it, as in my limited experience with it, just
> tested it again on an app with jaws 9, and first time out of the box, it
> didn't really do a great job. it missed one graphic, left it unlabelled,
> which did have
> a toolTip, and labelled another graphic number, the same label, although it
> was clear that this particular graphic number had multiple ToolTip options,
> depending on where it occurred in the window.
> again, another great candidate for HSC if one needed to click on those and
> label each spot where the same graphic number occurs, uniquely.
>
> And graphics autoLabeller wasn't smart enough to pick this up. be reeeally
> nice if they beefed up this feature and made it more robust and smarter.
>
> anywayz, so, to turn toolTip on globally for all verbosity levels do
> the following:
>
> 1. hit jaws+f2, then c, then enter, to open jaws configuration manager.
>
> 2. hit control+shift+d, to load in the default configuration, which
> underlies all apps. changes made in here will effect all apps globally. if
> you only wannit for one app, obviously don't do this.
>
> 3. hit alt+s, for set options menu, then v for verbosity.
>
> 4. to play safe, tab to each of the verbosity level preference buttons, i.e.
> beginner, intermediate, and advanced, and do the following for each one.
> A.) hit spacebar to activate the preferences dialog for each verbosity
> level.
> B. hit the end Key to jump to the last option, which is ToolTip Reading.
> it'll be unchecked if factory defaults are in place.
> C. hit spaceBar to check it, and hit enter to save, and back out to the main
> verbosity dialog.
>
> 5. Do this for each verbosity level, and then tab to ok and hit enter.
>
> 6. then either hit control s to save, and alt+F4 to leave config manager, or
> simply hit alt+f4 straight up, and when it asks do you wanna save changes,
> hit y to save and jump out in one fell swoop.
>
> now you might like to traul around your favorite unexplored programs with
> your jaws cursor,
> with graphics set to all, and see if any joy abounds in the hearing of any
> popUP text associated with certain graphics.
> BTW, it may not, so don't
> get toooo excited yet. sometimes programs don't provide them, or other
> times, they do, but, surprise surprise, (not,) <smile, they sometimes
> choose not to
> use the standard toolTip class event to do their popups. and thus
> jaws won't catch/speak them in those circumstances.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lennie Rinaldi" <merlin739@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:21 AM
> Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: HANDLING NON-SPEAKING CHECKED/UNCHECKED STATUS OF
> ITEMS, WAS Framing Easy CD-DA Extractor
>
>
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > Well, I went into my program (Easy CD-DA Extractor) and changed the
> > verbosity to graphics all. What I discovered, that when a CD is
> > inserted into the drive, the associated graphic number is the same
> > and all the titles are selected. When I deselect the entire CD, the
> > graphic number changed for each title. Then I hit the spacebar to
> > select a single title, that graphic number changed back to the way it
> > was originally.
> >
> > So, I labeled the graphics "checked" and "Unchecked" and it work great.
> >
> > There is another graphic number which is the same for each title, but
> > that didn't change whether checked or unchecked. In either case, the
> > background and foreground colors did not change.
> >
> > Now, I will have to work with framing to see if I can get that to work
> too!
> >
> > Thanks for your suggestion to label the graphics.
> >
> > Lennie
> >
> > At 12:17 AM 3/4/2008, you wrote:
> > >lenny. there are a number of ways that things can appear checked or
> > >unchecked, that I've run across in my young days, and young is the
> operative
> > >word, specially in jaws land, <grin,>
> > >so I'm sure others would have increased info on this as well.
> > >
> > >in fact, I'd be very interested, please, in seasoned scripters,
> commenting
> > >on various methods you have discovered TO WORK, of, say, making
> normatively
> > >accessible in the ways one expects, by jaws saying checked/unchecked as
> > >spaceBar is hit, over such items which don't speak this way out of the
> box.
> > >As lenny has described here.
> > >
> > >I can only say what I've noticed, not how I'd solve it through scripting,
> > >which I'd be very keen to know myself, how the pros among us would tackle
> > >such a thing.
> > >
> > >I've noticed that sometimes, either the foreGround, or background color
> of
> > >the text of the item itself, may change, to reflect whether an item's
> > >checked or not. thus when you know all are unchecked, and then you check
> one
> > >with spaceBar, exploring the foreGround/backGround color of one that is,
> and
> > >one that is not checked, with jaws+top row number 5, may help you to
> > >identify a way of detecting this, all be it fairly tediously by examining
> > >each one when needed.
> > >
> > >another thing I've noticed, with anoter cd Ripper called audioGrabber for
> > >example, that I own,
> > >in it's cd track list box, is that when you turn on Graphics to all, with
> > >jaws+v, then g, each item has a graphic next to it, that alters it's
> number,
> > >when it is checked, to when it is unchecked. however, in this particular
> > >nasty piece of work, where you'd then assume that every checked item's
> > >graphic would be one number, and every unchecked item's associated
> graphic
> > >would be another, but that all checked status items would be the same
> > >graphic number, and all unchecked would be the same graphic number,
> making
> > >it a simple task of manually labelling the one, "checked," and the other
> > >"unchecked," to gain accessibility, what I found instead was, that every
> > >actual item in the list, yes every one of them, had it's own unique
> graphic
> > >number that jaws would assign, to it's checked and to it's unchecked
> status.
> > >not only this, but I found that if your pc cursor was actually
> highlighting
> > >an item, such that it's color was white on midnight blue for example, a
> > >common windos highlight color, then it's checked and unchecked status
> > >graphics, located by the way at it's far lefthand end, would actulaly
> alter
> > >again! such that if you reeally wanted to be able to read with both pc,
> and
> > >jaws cursors, the correct status of every track, you'd have to sit there
> and
> > >label 4 different graphics, for each track. two for the
> checked/unchecked
> > >status of each item when it was highlighted, and then two other graphics
> for
> > >checked/unchecked status of the trak, when it was not highlighted. Crazy!
> > >But, this is what I found.
> > >so, after I'd labelled as many of them in the list as I ever got, only
> > >realyl needing to label their highlighted status, but being aware that if
> I
> > >reviewed with jaws cursor, I would get no equal feedback unless I
> labelled,
> > >all, those graphics as well,
> > >my memory was that they would then become accessible, and would speak
> their
> > >status even, as one toggled the spaceBar on them.
> > >
> > >Some comments from other scripters on this topic for my own knowledge
> would
> > >be very welcomed.
> > >
> > >geoff c.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >From: "Lennie Rinaldi" <merlin739@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >To: <jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:14 AM
> > >Subject: [jawsscripts] Re: [BULK] Framing Easy CD-DA Extractor
> > >
> > >
> > > > Sean,
> > > >
> > > > I am fairly new with the latest version of Easy CD-DA Extractor. For
> > > > now, the only issue that I have with this version is not able to hear
> > > > or Jaws say which songs are being ripped. I sometime only select a
> > > > partial title to be ripped and I want to be sure that what selected
> > > > is being copied.
> > > >
> > > > Also, I believe that earlier versions of the program, Jaws would
> > > > announce whether the titles are checked or unchecked. Version 10 and
> > > > 11 does not announce if the titles are checked or not. I usually do
> > > > Ctrl+N to unchecked the entire list and go through the titles hitting
> > > > the spacebar on those that I want. It is tricky if I should happen to
> > > > hit the spacebar on the unwanted title and I have no way of knowing
> > > > if it is selected or not.
> > > >
> > > > I am assuming that you are working with Jukka?
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime, unless I can figure out the framing problem, I just
> > > > have to move the Jaws cursor to the area and try to catch which
> > > > titles are being copied. The program does announce the percentages. I
> > > > am going to look further to Jeff's suggestions and see if I can
> > > > figure out the problem and get the frame to work. I like his idea to
> > > > create a new frame and go from there.
> > > >
> > > > Lennie
> > > >
> > > > At 06:03 PM 3/2/2008, you wrote:
> > > > >Lenny, I use the application, and am just getting my hhead round this
> > > > >new version. This certaily coul be made possible, Iam currently going
> > > > >through and giving the developer feedback as to problem areas.
> > > > >Feel free to pass anything on you feel is relevant.
> > > > >SEan.
> > > > >
> > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >[mailto:jawsscripts-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lennie Rinaldi
> > > > >Sent: 02 March 2008 22:54
> > > > >To: jawsscripts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >Subject: [BULK] [jawsscripts] Framing Easy CD-DA Extractor
> > > > >Importance: Low
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi Everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > >I recently installed the latest version of Easy CD-DA Extractor
> version
> > > > >11.1. When I used to run version 10.5 to rip a CD, I had to create a
> > > > >frame to have Jaws to speak the title of each song being copied.
> > > > >
> > > > >However, The same frame in the old version does not work with version
> > > > >11.1. I tried modifying the frame, but after numerous changes,
> nothing
> > > > >is working like it did in the older version of Easy CD-DA Extractor.
> > > > >
> > > > >Is there anyone out there using the latest version of this program
> and
> > > > >was able to figure out how to get Jaws to speak the titles while the
> > > > >titles are being copied? Perhaps, writing a script would be a better
> > > > >way? I am a novice at writing scripts, but with any help or
> suggestions
> > > > >from the list, I may be able to write one? I know that Jim Grimsby
> has
> > > > >written some script for this program and it is running in Jaws 9
> without
> > > > >any problems, but his script does not satisfy the speaking of copying
> > > > >titles.
> > > > >
> > > > >Many thanks for any suggestions and help.
> > > > >
> > > > >Frustrated Lennie
> > > > >
> > > > >
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