Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

Like I said before - you're playing in my old neighborhood here...
The term "modem" was defined and in use long before the computer industry got 
ahold of it and the term correctly applies to DSL devices that allow 

As with the Hayes (and compatible) modems, DSL modems convert digital data to 
analog signals using audio modulation techniques.
CAT5 == digital signaling; PSTN == analog signaling.  You need a modem to 
"bridge" the two.

Whether you (dis)like the term "audio", the fact remains that PSTN is analog & 
CAT5 is digital; neither devices can understand the other signal type.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:03 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

Today, yes.  Originally, no.  The "modem" was specifically designed to 
convert digital data into an analog wave as the carrier over PSTN's (and the 
reverse process).   There was no "modem" application for DSL, Radio, etc. 
The "modem" was specifically invented just for that purpose (I'll let you 
research the history of "modem" on your own ;)  Today, the term is obviously 
used in more general terms, hence the existence of this thread. But that was 
the basis of my original point- that it is not a "modem" in the original 
sense of the word or device.

Q: How many legs does an elephant have if you call the trunk a leg?
A: Four.  Calling the "trunk" a "leg" changes nothing.

And not to pick nits, but if you can't hear it, it's not "audio."  Audio, by 
it's very definition and Latin origin means "I hear."

You know how pedantic I am... I just had to clear up that it's not "audio" 
and it's not a "modem."  Is it a carrier signal based on modulation?  You 
bet.  Is it a modem sending audio signals?  No way, no how.

t

-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:18 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1


http://www.ISAserver.org

Now you bees playing in my old neighborhood (Tom, get your daughter in on 
this).  Let's not confuse "Hayes" with "modem".

A "modem" (Modulator / Demodulator) is nothing more than a signal 
translation device, regardless of its intended application (DSL, dial-up 
access, AM radio, etc.)
- In the MODulation function, it uses a baseband signal (CAT5 in this case) 
to modify one or more aspects (phase, frequency, amplitude) of a carrier 
signal in a predefined manner.
- In the DEModulator function, it performs a reverse process, extracting the 
baseband signal from the modified carrier signal.

Here's a reasonably decent discussion on how DSL signals are propagated:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl4.htm

It's not "audible" audio, but it is audio, nonetheless...

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:47 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

It depends on your definition of "audio."  If you mean that the signaling is
based on square waves of a fixed high and low amplitude at a particular
frequency being interpreted as a digital signal, then OK.  But if you are
defining DSL's"audio" nature as the modulation of electromagnetic signals
into true "sound" (which is what a modem does) by creating signals of
amplitude, frequency and phase represented in the form of the typical
trigonometric sine and cosine wave (analog), then I must respectfully
disagree.

t


-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1


http://www.ISAserver.org

Ok, smarty-pants.
The CAT5 electrical signals that represent the Ethernet traffic are used to
modulate the audio between the modem & the DSLAM.

DSL is by nature, audio.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:19 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

I'm going to pretend like I never read that.  Ethernet signals are used to
modulate audio signals?  I'll have a puff, please.

t

-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1


http://www.ISAserver.org

Actually, the ones that bridge Ethernet to telco are modems.
They use the Ethernet signals to modulate the audio signals carried to the
DSLAM.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:13 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

Just like the marketroids call them "modems."  There ain't a BIT o' analog
modulation a'goin on...

-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1


http://www.ISAserver.org

..but of course you have, oh Diva of SBS fame.

The marketroids call them "routers".
Sometimes they're part of the modem; sometimes not.
Sometimes they're configured for NAT, sometimes not.
When it's not NAT-ing, it's acting like a hub (bridge).

In this case, the only interesting part is that the device is configured as
a bridge.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Babinchak [mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

What's a DSL bridge? I've never run into one of those in small business
land.

Amy

Harbor Computer Services
Small Business Computer Specialists

Client Blog: http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/
Tech Blog: http://isainsbs.blogspot.com/
Website: http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:10 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

Oooo..k.

Jeff gets step #1.
For those of us not "netsh-aware", the full command would be (assuming you
named the external interface "north"):
 - netsh int ip add addr north 10.0.0.1 255.255.255.0

Alexandre gets "most sickliest response". :-p

To continue the challenge, answer the following questions:
1. why doesn't it work yet?
2. what non-GUI step must be taken to make it work?

..remember; ISA policies are not interesting yet.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Gauthier [mailto:gauthiera@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:01 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

Your answer makes me moist in my special places.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bunting, Jeff [mailto:BUNTING@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Envoyé : 28 décembre 2005 14:58
À : [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Objet : [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

how about with
netsh interface ip add address

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:29 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org

Remember; this is the "out of the GUI" challenge.
How would you accomplish item 1 from the command line?

Also, it still won't work (incomplete).
What other non-ISA, non-GUI steps must be taken?

#2 answered correctly.

--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:07 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1

http://www.ISAserver.org


1) Bind a additional static IP 10.0.0.X/24 to ISA External Interface
2) In case of dynamic IP, static IP can't assign as per 1)


> Merry Xmas & Happy New Year!
>
> In the spirit of giving, here's a "think outside the GUI" challenge
for
> you.
>
> Scenario:
> - ISA is connected directly to the Internet via a "manageable" DSL
> bridge
> - ISA uses 123.123.123.123/24 static external IP; DG = 123.123.123.1
> - Internal LAN uses 10.9.8.x/24
> - DSL bridge has unchangeable 10.0.0.2/24 internal IP
> - DSL bridge offers web-based management on that internal IP
>
> Internet
>    |
>       DSL Bridge
>          |- 10.0.0.2/24
>    |- 123.123.123.123/24
>         ISA
>          |- 10.9.8.x/24
>   LAN
>
> Note:
> - The DSL bridge internal IP is irrelevant to normal Internet access.
> Because it's operating in "bridge" (as opposed to NAT) mode, it's
> effectively transparent to the ISA for Internet traffic.
>
> Challenges:
> 1. Allow either ISA-local or ISA-internal to access the DSL bridge web
> interface 2. Explain why the correct solution is impossible to
> implement if the ISP provides a dynamic IP.
>
> Hint:
> - The core of the solution has nothing whatsoever to do with ISA
itself.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Jim Harrison
> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
> http://isatools.org
> Read the help / books / articles!
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.

------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
bunting@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit
http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
gauthiera@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as:
thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: 
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.


------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: 
thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------------------------------
List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp
ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ
------------------------------------------------------
Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites:
http://www.techgenix.com
------------------------------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: 
jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist
Report abuse to listadmin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.



Other related posts: