Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
- From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:18:23 -0800
Like I said before - you're playing in my old neighborhood here...
The term "modem" was defined and in use long before the computer industry got
ahold of it and the term correctly applies to DSL devices that allow
As with the Hayes (and compatible) modems, DSL modems convert digital data to
analog signals using audio modulation techniques.
CAT5 == digital signaling; PSTN == analog signaling. You need a modem to
"bridge" the two.
Whether you (dis)like the term "audio", the fact remains that PSTN is analog &
CAT5 is digital; neither devices can understand the other signal type.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:03 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Today, yes. Originally, no. The "modem" was specifically designed to
convert digital data into an analog wave as the carrier over PSTN's (and the
reverse process). There was no "modem" application for DSL, Radio, etc.
The "modem" was specifically invented just for that purpose (I'll let you
research the history of "modem" on your own ;) Today, the term is obviously
used in more general terms, hence the existence of this thread. But that was
the basis of my original point- that it is not a "modem" in the original
sense of the word or device.
Q: How many legs does an elephant have if you call the trunk a leg?
A: Four. Calling the "trunk" a "leg" changes nothing.
And not to pick nits, but if you can't hear it, it's not "audio." Audio, by
it's very definition and Latin origin means "I hear."
You know how pedantic I am... I just had to clear up that it's not "audio"
and it's not a "modem." Is it a carrier signal based on modulation? You
bet. Is it a modem sending audio signals? No way, no how.
t
-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:18 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Now you bees playing in my old neighborhood (Tom, get your daughter in on
this). Let's not confuse "Hayes" with "modem".
A "modem" (Modulator / Demodulator) is nothing more than a signal
translation device, regardless of its intended application (DSL, dial-up
access, AM radio, etc.)
- In the MODulation function, it uses a baseband signal (CAT5 in this case)
to modify one or more aspects (phase, frequency, amplitude) of a carrier
signal in a predefined manner.
- In the DEModulator function, it performs a reverse process, extracting the
baseband signal from the modified carrier signal.
Here's a reasonably decent discussion on how DSL signals are propagated:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl4.htm
It's not "audible" audio, but it is audio, nonetheless...
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:47 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
It depends on your definition of "audio." If you mean that the signaling is
based on square waves of a fixed high and low amplitude at a particular
frequency being interpreted as a digital signal, then OK. But if you are
defining DSL's"audio" nature as the modulation of electromagnetic signals
into true "sound" (which is what a modem does) by creating signals of
amplitude, frequency and phase represented in the form of the typical
trigonometric sine and cosine wave (analog), then I must respectfully
disagree.
t
-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Ok, smarty-pants.
The CAT5 electrical signals that represent the Ethernet traffic are used to
modulate the audio between the modem & the DSLAM.
DSL is by nature, audio.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:19 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
I'm going to pretend like I never read that. Ethernet signals are used to
modulate audio signals? I'll have a puff, please.
t
-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Actually, the ones that bridge Ethernet to telco are modems.
They use the Ethernet signals to modulate the audio signals carried to the
DSLAM.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:13 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Just like the marketroids call them "modems." There ain't a BIT o' analog
modulation a'goin on...
-----
"I may disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your
right to say it."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:48 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
..but of course you have, oh Diva of SBS fame.
The marketroids call them "routers".
Sometimes they're part of the modem; sometimes not.
Sometimes they're configured for NAT, sometimes not.
When it's not NAT-ing, it's acting like a hub (bridge).
In this case, the only interesting part is that the device is configured as
a bridge.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Babinchak [mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
What's a DSL bridge? I've never run into one of those in small business
land.
Amy
Harbor Computer Services
Small Business Computer Specialists
Client Blog: http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/
Tech Blog: http://isainsbs.blogspot.com/
Website: http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:10 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Oooo..k.
Jeff gets step #1.
For those of us not "netsh-aware", the full command would be (assuming you
named the external interface "north"):
- netsh int ip add addr north 10.0.0.1 255.255.255.0
Alexandre gets "most sickliest response". :-p
To continue the challenge, answer the following questions:
1. why doesn't it work yet?
2. what non-GUI step must be taken to make it work?
..remember; ISA policies are not interesting yet.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Gauthier [mailto:gauthiera@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:01 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Your answer makes me moist in my special places.
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Bunting, Jeff [mailto:BUNTING@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Envoyé : 28 décembre 2005 14:58
À : [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Objet : [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
how about with
netsh interface ip add address
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:29 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
Remember; this is the "out of the GUI" challenge.
How would you accomplish item 1 from the command line?
Also, it still won't work (incomplete).
What other non-ISA, non-GUI steps must be taken?
#2 answered correctly.
--------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
--------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Tsao [mailto:roy_tsao@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:07 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Think outside the GUI challenge #1
http://www.ISAserver.org
1) Bind a additional static IP 10.0.0.X/24 to ISA External Interface
2) In case of dynamic IP, static IP can't assign as per 1)
> Merry Xmas & Happy New Year!
>
> In the spirit of giving, here's a "think outside the GUI" challenge
for
> you.
>
> Scenario:
> - ISA is connected directly to the Internet via a "manageable" DSL
> bridge
> - ISA uses 123.123.123.123/24 static external IP; DG = 123.123.123.1
> - Internal LAN uses 10.9.8.x/24
> - DSL bridge has unchangeable 10.0.0.2/24 internal IP
> - DSL bridge offers web-based management on that internal IP
>
> Internet
> |
> DSL Bridge
> |- 10.0.0.2/24
> |- 123.123.123.123/24
> ISA
> |- 10.9.8.x/24
> LAN
>
> Note:
> - The DSL bridge internal IP is irrelevant to normal Internet access.
> Because it's operating in "bridge" (as opposed to NAT) mode, it's
> effectively transparent to the ISA for Internet traffic.
>
> Challenges:
> 1. Allow either ISA-local or ISA-internal to access the DSL bridge web
> interface 2. Explain why the correct solution is impossible to
> implement if the ISP provides a dynamic IP.
>
> Hint:
> - The core of the solution has nothing whatsoever to do with ISA
itself.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Jim Harrison
> MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
> http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
> http://isatools.org
> Read the help / books / articles!
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
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