http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- You might consider deploying a "read-only" DC in the branch. This reduces the WAN traffic for logon and AD replication. Logon traffic across the WAN is a nasty thing to handle and troubleshoot. ------------------------------------------------------- Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! ------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 07:33 To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- The plan it to move the DC's out of the brand offices altogether. Conditional forwarding. That might be what I'm looking for. Thanks, Amy -----Original Message----- From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:23 AM To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders http://www.ISAserver.org ------------------------------------------------------- Hi Amy, If the internal users need to access main office resources using DNS, then I think it would be a good idea to move the Internet host name resolution away from the branch office DCs. You can do this by putting a caching only DNS server on the ISA Firewall themselves (or on another machine) and then creating a stub zone or configure conditional forwarding on those DNS servers so that they send requests for the Internal domain(s) to the DCs. HTH, Tom Thomas W Shinder, M.D. Site: www.isaserver.org Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA) > -----Original Message----- > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:12 AM > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > > http://www.ISAserver.org > ------------------------------------------------------- > > At the branch offices their DNS use is more Internet than contacting > internal hosts. There are a lot of DC's in the network currently so > there's a lot of chatter going on. This would be a temporary move > until I can get rid of some of the DC's. They really aren't necessary. > > > Amy > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:52 AM > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > > http://www.ISAserver.org > ------------------------------------------------------- > > I don't have any cache-only DNS servers in my infrastructure, but my > ISP does (in addition to the "standard" redundant servers) so I use > those for my DMZ DNS server's lookups... > > How will making the branch servers cache only cut down on DNS traffic? > What's the difference between the cache only server fetching the > record compared to the AD update? Or are there that many hosts that > no one is ever trying to reach that it will make a difference? > > t > > > On 10/23/06 6:26 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > spoketh to all: > > > http://www.ISAserver.org > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thor, > > > > Do you put any cache only servers in the mix? I've got a > network where > > there are DC's running DNS at branch offices and I'm thinking of > making > > those only cache servers to reduce some network traffic. > > > > Amy > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God) > > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:50 PM > > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > > > > http://www.ISAserver.org > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I've found that many people seem to dance over the security > > ramifications of DNS/forwarders when designing an infrastructure. I > > had > some off-list > > conversations about this, and thought that it may be > valuable to fully > > flesh-out what I think the issues are and how to avoid them. Now's > also > > probably a good time to share my "trick" regarding publicly > available > > DNS > > and minimizing service exposure. So, for the benefit of > those who are > > interested: > > > > When AD DNS is configured as a forwarder, all domain members using > that > > DNS > > server will be able to resolve hostnames directly from > their IP stack. > > There is no operational reason to have this-- when one > considers that > > most > > spyware/malware/trojans/backdoors/shells/etc typically depend on > > hostname lookups for direct access to a resource, the capability of > > a client > box > > to > > perform direct host lookups outside your network should (to me) be > > considered unwanted and un-needed. Personally, I qualify it as > > "dangerous." > > > > That's why I always configure my AD DNS with a root (.) zone- that > way, > > only > > local zones may be queried by the client's stack. I typically only > use > > web > > proxy clients for HTTP(S)/FTP where all DNS is proxied by > the ISA box. > > If > > one needs direct DNS for another application (say DOS FTP) then use > the > > FWC > > and all DNS will be resolved over the control channel, still being > > proxied by the ISA server. > > > > The ISA server itself will have whatever "public" DNS server > configured > > in > > its stack so that it can do the resolution for the clients. > > > > Not only is direct client DNS "dangerous," but having an AD > box set up > > as a > > forwarder is "dangerous" as well as the box must be configured to > access > > a > > remote resource over TCP/UDP 53. This also means that you've opened > > that box up for incoming traffic on TCP/UDP 53 as well. Having > > static > paths > > into > > your internal network from source port routing is crazy. I can push > > anything I want over 53, not just DNS (and have ;). > Remember, the DNS > > filter is only for published DNS servers, not clients requesting DNS > > lookups. > > > > But there is the issue of one wanting complete control over > host names > > and > > the need to publish your own DNS. This is what the DMZ is for. The > DMZ > > box > > is set as a forwarding server, and the internal ISA box is > set to use > > that > > box for all DNS requests. In this way, only the ISA box itself need > to > > request DNS outside the internal network, and it is already > protected. > > In > > this manner, there is no DNS leaving the internal network > at all, and > no > > static ports into the internal network-- only the ISA box looking up > > DNS, and only to that DMZ resource. The DNS server in the DMZ > is protected > > by > > the border ISA box, which (where necessary) is publishing DNS to the > DMZ > > for > > remote hosts to look up your domain information. And here the DNS > > filter is used. > > > > But you can get even better than that-- you can actually be fully in > > control of your own zone data without having to actually publish > > your DNS to > the > > world if you have a decent ISP. > > > > Here's what I do for that-- I have DMZ DNS servers set up as primary > DNS > > zones, and have told my ISP to set up their servers as > secondary zones > > for > > my domains. The DMZ box can only zone transfer to the IP's of my > ISP's > > DNS > > servers. Additionally the DMZ box is set to forward to my > ISP's cache > > servers. So, at this point, all internal AD DNS is stopped at the > > controller, and only the ISA box can resolve DNS and only to the DMZ > DNS > > server. My internal Exchange clusters' stack resolves to the AD > > controller, and they smart host deliver mail to my DMZ GFI gateway, > > so still no > DNS > > leaving. The GFI box in the DMZ uses the DMZ DNS. > > > > The trick is that though I'm primary DNS, and though any changes I > make > > to > > my DNS hosts are immediately replicated to my ISP as secondary DNS, > I've > > registered my DNS with the domain registry as my *ISP* > being primary. > > So > > the world resolves my host names via my *ISP's* DNS servers, not > *mine*. > > I > > don't even have to publish DNS at all. > > > > The end result is that no DNS requests leave my internal network at > all, > > except for a single DNS box in the DMZ that can only resolve to the > ISP > > DNS > > caches. There is no publishing at all, no internal paths, no vulns, > > nothing at all since the world resolves to the ISP boxes yet I have > > full > control > > over all host name entries. > > > > It's a pretty tight config. > > > > t > > > > > > > > On 10/18/06 11:01 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> > spoketh > > to > > all: > > > >> http://www.ISAserver.org > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> The T-Man is definitely right about this. > >> > >> Thomas W Shinder, M.D. > >> Site: www.isaserver.org > >> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/ > >> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 > >> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA) > >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of > >>> God) > >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 PM > >>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>> > >>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Why do your internal clients need to resolve DNS directly? I > >>> never ever use forwarders on my AD boxes. I always create root > >>> zones on my AD DNS servers and only use ISA to resolve DNS for web > >>> proxy/fw clients. > >>> > >>> That's where what I consider "true" security and separation comes > >>> from. > >>> > >>> t > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/18/06 9:13 AM, "ISA" <ISA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all: > >>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This actually has happened with and without forwarders - > >>>> > >>>> Steve, I interpret your suggestion as using only the Root Hints? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP > >>>> > >>>> Network Blade Inc. > >>>> > >>>> 49 Marcy Street > >>>> > >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 > >>>> > >>>> 732-213-0600 > >>>> > >>>> www.networkblade.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat > >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:08 PM Posted To: ISA > >>>> Conversation: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> FWIW.....I have 2 caching only DNS Servers that I setup to use as > >>>> forwarders for my AD DNS Servers, when I use them, I get > >>> the very same > >>>> issue. If I however, remove them from the forwarders > >>> section, I have no > >>>> DNS Issues at all whatsoever, anytime. > >>>> > >>>> S > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of ISA > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM > >>>> To: ISA Mailing List > >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Mike: > >>>> > >>>> I will try clearing the cache - but this happens now > about everyday > >>>> (morning usually). I really have to find the source of > the problem. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP > >>>> > >>>> Network Blade Inc. > >>>> > >>>> 49 Marcy Street > >>>> > >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 > >>>> > >>>> 732-213-0600 > >>>> > >>>> www.networkblade.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of Michael Ross > >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:01 PM Posted To: ISA > >>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Windows 2003 DNS servers? > >>>> Believe it or not, ive seen that . It's a cache pollution type of > >>>> behavior, with no logging or other signs to prove that. > >>>> Try to clear the DNS cache next time and see if it helps. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of ISA > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:59 AM > >>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Steve: Funny you should say that because I've done that a few > times. > >>>> > >>>> DNS stops - I removed the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works. > >>>> DNS stops - I change the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works. > >>>> > >>>> I want to blame my server but I'm just not sure where the > >>> failure is. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP > >>>> > >>>> Network Blade Inc. > >>>> > >>>> 49 Marcy Street > >>>> > >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873 > >>>> > >>>> 732-213-0600 > >>>> > >>>> www.networkblade.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat > >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:55 AM Posted To: ISA > >>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Remove the forwarders.....then see how fast your Internet speed > >>>> gets...:) > >>>> > >>>> S > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >>>> On Behalf Of ISA > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:49 PM > >>>> To: ISA Mailing List > >>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders > >>>> > >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Hello All - > >>>> > >>>> This might be off-topic, but has anyone every had their > >>> Windows DNS/DC > >>>> server intermittently stop forwarding DNS requests? > >>>> > >>>> I checked with the ISP and they don't recognize and > >>> problems on their > >>>> end. > >>>> > >>>> JD > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> List Archives: //www.freelists.org/archives/isalist/ > >>>> ISA Server Newsletter: > http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp > >>>> ISA Server Articles and Tutorials: > >>>> http://www.isaserver.org/articles_tutorials/ > >>>> ISA Server Blogs: http://blogs.isaserver.org/ > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Visit TechGenix.com for more information about our other sites: > >>>> http://www.techgenix.com > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> To unsubscribe visit http://www.isaserver.org/pages/isalist.asp > 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