[isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders

  • From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:26:29 -0700

http://www.ISAserver.org
-------------------------------------------------------

You might consider deploying a "read-only" DC in the branch.
This reduces the WAN traffic for logon and AD replication.
Logon traffic across the WAN is a nasty thing to handle and troubleshoot.

-------------------------------------------------------
   Jim Harrison
   MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
   http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
   http://isatools.org
   Read the help / books / articles!
-------------------------------------------------------
 

-----Original Message-----
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 07:33
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders

http://www.ISAserver.org
-------------------------------------------------------
  
The plan it to move the DC's out of the brand offices altogether.
Conditional forwarding. That might be what I'm looking for. 

Thanks,

Amy  

-----Original Message-----
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Thomas W Shinder
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:23 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders

http://www.ISAserver.org
-------------------------------------------------------
  
Hi Amy,

If the internal users need to access main office resources using DNS, then I 
think it would be a good idea to move the Internet host name resolution away 
from the branch office DCs. You can do this by putting a caching only DNS 
server on the ISA Firewall themselves (or on another
machine) and then creating a stub zone or configure conditional forwarding on 
those DNS servers so that they send requests for the Internal domain(s) to the 
DCs.

HTH,
Tom

Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Amy Babinchak
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:12 AM
> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> 
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
>   
> At the branch offices their DNS use is more Internet than contacting 
> internal hosts. There are a lot of DC's in the network currently so 
> there's a lot of chatter going on. This would be a temporary move 
> until I can get rid of some of the DC's. They really aren't necessary.
> 
> 
> Amy
>  
>    
>  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:52 AM
> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> 
> http://www.ISAserver.org
> -------------------------------------------------------
>   
> I don't have any cache-only DNS servers in my infrastructure, but my 
> ISP does (in addition to the "standard" redundant servers) so I use 
> those for my DMZ DNS server's lookups...
> 
> How will making the branch servers cache only cut down on DNS traffic?
> What's the difference between the cache only server fetching the 
> record compared to the AD update?  Or are there that many hosts that 
> no one is ever trying to reach that it will make a difference?
> 
> t
> 
> 
> On 10/23/06 6:26 PM, "Amy Babinchak" <amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> spoketh to all:
> 
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Thor,
> > 
> > Do you put any cache only servers in the mix? I've got a
> network where
> > there are DC's running DNS at branch offices and I'm thinking of
> making
> > those only cache servers to reduce some network traffic.
> > 
> > Amy
> >  
> >    
> >  
> >  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:50 PM
> > To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> > 
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >   
> > I've found that many people seem to dance over the security 
> > ramifications of DNS/forwarders when designing an infrastructure.  I 
> > had
> some off-list
> > conversations about this, and thought that it may be
> valuable to fully
> > flesh-out what I think the issues are and how to avoid them.  Now's
> also
> > probably a good time to share my "trick" regarding publicly
> available
> > DNS
> > and minimizing service exposure.  So, for the benefit of
> those who are
> > interested:
> > 
> > When AD DNS is configured as a forwarder, all domain members using
> that
> > DNS
> > server will be able to resolve hostnames directly from
> their IP stack.
> > There is no operational reason to have this-- when one
> considers that
> > most
> > spyware/malware/trojans/backdoors/shells/etc typically depend on 
> > hostname lookups for direct access to a resource, the capability of 
> > a client
> box
> > to
> > perform direct host lookups outside your network should (to me) be 
> > considered unwanted and un-needed.  Personally, I qualify it as 
> > "dangerous."
> > 
> > That's why I always configure my AD DNS with a root (.) zone- that
> way,
> > only
> > local zones may be queried by the client's stack.  I typically only
> use
> > web
> > proxy clients for HTTP(S)/FTP where all DNS is proxied by
> the ISA box.
> > If
> > one needs direct DNS for another application (say DOS FTP) then use
> the
> > FWC
> > and all DNS will be resolved over the control channel, still being 
> > proxied by the ISA server.
> > 
> > The ISA server itself will have whatever "public" DNS server
> configured
> > in
> > its stack so that it can do the resolution for the clients.
> > 
> > Not only is direct client DNS "dangerous," but having an AD
> box set up
> > as a
> > forwarder is "dangerous" as well as the box must be configured to
> access
> > a
> > remote resource over TCP/UDP 53.  This also means that you've opened 
> > that box up for incoming traffic on TCP/UDP 53 as well.  Having 
> > static
> paths
> > into
> > your internal network from source port routing is crazy.  I can push 
> > anything I want over 53, not just DNS (and have ;).
> Remember, the DNS
> > filter is only for published DNS servers, not clients requesting DNS 
> > lookups.
> > 
> > But there is the issue of one wanting complete control over
> host names
> > and
> > the need to publish your own DNS.  This is what the DMZ is for.  The
> DMZ
> > box
> > is set as a forwarding server, and the internal ISA box is
> set to use
> > that
> > box for all DNS requests.  In this way, only the ISA box itself need
> to
> > request DNS outside the internal network, and it is already
> protected.
> > In
> > this manner, there is no DNS leaving the internal network
> at all, and
> no
> > static ports into the internal network-- only the ISA box looking up 
> > DNS, and only to that DMZ resource.  The DNS server in the DMZ
> is protected
> > by
> > the border ISA box, which (where necessary) is publishing DNS to the
> DMZ
> > for
> > remote hosts to look up your domain information.  And here the DNS 
> > filter is used.
> > 
> > But you can get even better than that-- you can actually be fully in 
> > control of your own zone data without having to actually publish 
> > your DNS to
> the
> > world if you have a decent ISP.
> > 
> > Here's what I do for that-- I have DMZ DNS servers set up as primary
> DNS
> > zones, and have told my ISP to set up their servers as
> secondary zones
> > for
> > my domains.  The DMZ box can only zone transfer to the IP's of my
> ISP's
> > DNS
> > servers.  Additionally the DMZ box is set to forward to my
> ISP's cache
> > servers.  So, at this point, all internal AD DNS is stopped at the 
> > controller, and only the ISA box can resolve DNS and only to the DMZ
> DNS
> > server.  My internal Exchange clusters' stack resolves to the AD 
> > controller, and they smart host deliver mail to my DMZ GFI gateway, 
> > so still no
> DNS
> > leaving.  The GFI box in the DMZ uses the DMZ DNS.
> > 
> > The trick is that though I'm primary DNS, and though any changes I
> make
> > to
> > my DNS hosts are immediately replicated to my ISP as secondary DNS,
> I've
> > registered my DNS with the domain registry as my *ISP*
> being primary.
> > So
> > the world resolves my host names via my *ISP's* DNS servers, not
> *mine*.
> > I
> > don't even have to publish DNS at all.
> > 
> > The end result is that no DNS requests leave my internal network at
> all,
> > except for a single DNS box in the DMZ that can only resolve to the
> ISP
> > DNS
> > caches.  There is no publishing at all, no internal paths, no vulns, 
> > nothing at all since the world resolves to the ISP boxes yet I have 
> > full
> control
> > over all host name entries.
> > 
> > It's a pretty tight config.
> > 
> > t
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 10/18/06 11:01 AM, "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> spoketh
> > to
> > all:
> > 
> >> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >> -------------------------------------------------------
> >> 
> >> The T-Man is definitely right about this.
> >> 
> >> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> >> Site: www.isaserver.org
> >> Blog: http://blogs.isaserver.org/shinder/
> >> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> >> MVP -- Microsoft Firewalls (ISA)
> >> 
> >>  
> >> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of 
> >>> God)
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:52 PM
> >>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>> 
> >>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>   
> >>> Why do your internal clients need to resolve DNS directly?  I 
> >>> never ever use forwarders on my AD boxes.  I always create root 
> >>> zones on my AD DNS servers and only use ISA to resolve DNS for web 
> >>> proxy/fw clients.
> >>> 
> >>> That's where what I consider "true" security and separation comes 
> >>> from.
> >>> 
> >>> t
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On 10/18/06 9:13 AM, "ISA" <ISA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all:
> >>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> This actually has happened with and without forwarders -
> >>>> 
> >>>> Steve, I interpret your suggestion as using only the Root Hints?
> >>>> 
> >>>>  
> >>>> 
> >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
> >>>> 
> >>>> Network Blade Inc.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 49 Marcy Street
> >>>> 
> >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
> >>>> 
> >>>> 732-213-0600
> >>>> 
> >>>> www.networkblade.com
> >>>> 
> >>>>  
> >>>> 
> >>>>  
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
> >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:08 PM Posted To: ISA
> >>>> Conversation: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>   
> >>>> FWIW.....I have 2 caching only DNS Servers that I setup to use as 
> >>>> forwarders for my AD DNS Servers, when I use them, I get
> >>> the very same
> >>>> issue. If I however, remove them from the forwarders
> >>> section, I have no
> >>>> DNS Issues at all whatsoever, anytime.
> >>>> 
> >>>> S
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of ISA
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM
> >>>> To: ISA Mailing List
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thanks Mike:
> >>>> 
> >>>> I will try clearing the cache - but this happens now
> about everyday
> >>>> (morning usually). I really have to find the source of
> the problem.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
> >>>> 
> >>>> Network Blade Inc.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 49 Marcy Street
> >>>> 
> >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
> >>>> 
> >>>> 732-213-0600
> >>>> 
> >>>> www.networkblade.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Michael Ross
> >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:01 PM Posted To: ISA
> >>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> Windows 2003 DNS servers?
> >>>> Believe it or not, ive seen that . It's a cache pollution type of 
> >>>> behavior, with no logging or other signs to prove that.
> >>>> Try to clear the DNS cache next time and see if it helps.
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of ISA
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:59 AM
> >>>> To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> Steve: Funny you should say that because I've done that a few
> times.
> >>>> 
> >>>> DNS stops - I removed the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works.
> >>>> DNS stops - I change the forwards - Restart DNS - DNS works.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I want to blame my server but I'm just not sure where the
> >>> failure is.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Joseph Danielsen, MCSA-Messaging, MCP
> >>>> 
> >>>> Network Blade Inc.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 49 Marcy Street
> >>>> 
> >>>> Somerset, NJ 08873
> >>>> 
> >>>> 732-213-0600
> >>>> 
> >>>> www.networkblade.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Moffat
> >>>> Posted At: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:55 AM Posted To: ISA
> >>>> Conversation: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] Re: OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> Remove the forwarders.....then see how fast your Internet speed
> >>>> gets...:)
> >>>> 
> >>>> S
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> On Behalf Of ISA
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:49 PM
> >>>> To: ISA Mailing List
> >>>> Subject: [isalist] OT: DNS and Forwarders
> >>>> 
> >>>> http://www.ISAserver.org
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hello All -
> >>>> 
> >>>> This might be off-topic, but has anyone every had their
> >>> Windows DNS/DC
> >>>> server intermittently stop forwarding DNS requests?
> >>>> 
> >>>> I checked with the ISP and they don't recognize and
> >>> problems on their
> >>>> end.
> >>>> 
> >>>> JD
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------
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