Andrew, Good train of thought - however the MAX_VIA_COUNT only applies to nets not shapes. If they were able to add a MIN_VIA_COUNT then they would need to change what objects the attributes could be applied to also. Thanks Tony Cosentino Tekelec ________________________________ From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Noonan (annoonan) Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:38 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RE : Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias Seems to me that we already have a property called "MAX_VIA_COUNT". Couldn't we have "MIN VIA COUNT" as well? Just my $0.02 Andrew Noonan CAE, PCB Design SVBU Cisco Systems, Inc. annoonan@xxxxxxxxx w 408-853-7785 c 650-814-3677 ________________________________ From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cosentino, Tony Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:58 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RE : Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias Dave, Please continue the ranting and raving - it is discussions like this that keep people thinking and communicating. We normally attach a Net_Physical_Property = 50A for nets that require 50 amps and then we painfully calculate the required copper distribution and via quantities needed to support this design at the required parameters. Linking this conversation back to the original string; we then manually verify these vias retain the nets we originally intended them to be associated with by following our own internal process. Does anyone else have a way of applying the needed rule and automatically verifying the requirements? Thanks Tony Cosentino Tekelec ________________________________ From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Seymour Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:44 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RE : Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias One more thing. On power related circuits... How does anyone check that there are enough vias and copper? For example, 50A needed for a circuit. If a via carries 1A, for this example. How do I know I got 50 vias? One via satisfies the netlist check. One 8 mil track satisfies the netlist check How does one check? Currently Ranting and Raving, Dave Dave Seymour wrote: Very carefully. I do the hook up after the planes are set. The only traces allowed on the dummy layer are the redundant wires. So, visually there is not alot of clutter. One could also set this up as a NET_PHYICAL_TYPE constraint and not allow any other nets on this layer. Which would help a little, but not solve all issues. There is no automatic check. Like I said "This is not elegant" However, I have, in the past, had designs where stand alone vias drop nets and had to come up with something. dave Jean-Charles TEYSSIER wrote: I see one danger with this solution: if the net (say GND) is not fully connected on regular layers but connected with the "redundant" one, the pcb will not work. How do you check this? -------- Message d'origine-------- De: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx de la part de Dave Seymour Date: ven. 03/03/2006 16:05 À: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Objet : [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias One solution which I have used, is to create a dummy routing layer. Then pick a convenient component pin and hook the vias and pin together with a connect line. This is space and routing dependent. If there is routing room, use an existing layers. This is not elegant, but it does ensure that the vias don't drop the net. The dummy layer (if used) does not get plotted ( no gerber), however since the vias are typically gnd or power and the vias are supported on another layer, this added connection is redundant. It would be a really nice feature to be able to "lock" the net to the via. Hope it helps, dave Malou wrote: Hi Yah I agree with you, but if the design have a lot of reinforcement via to stitch your gnd or power plane meaning the whole board has lot of scattered gnd via or power , think we can't just delete and place a new one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaymole Varghese <mailto:jaymole@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:jaymole@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:16 AM Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias Hi I don't understand why we have to go for complex solutions. I think if we just delete that via, place a new via in same place and manually giving the desired connectivity to the new via can solve this problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Wong" <maveric0@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:maveric0@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:maveric0@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 2:18 AM Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on free-standing vias > Gary: > Is that Allegro 15.5 ? > Les > > --- Gary MacIndoe <gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx <mailto:gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx> <mailto:gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys/gals, > > > > Cadence has addressed this issue, at least to an > > extent (when copying vias). > > Go into Edit -> Copy, vias turned on, in the Options > > tab, then check "Retain > > net of vias" box. Then, you copy say a gnd via and > > drop it down anywhere > > not on a trace, it retains the gnd net. You can > > move it around all you > > want, it will still be gnd. > > > > Gary E. MacIndoe > > PCB Design Engineer > > Advanced Micro Devices > > Longmont, Colorado > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > > Behalf Of Daniel So > > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:05 PM > > To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on > > free-standing vias > > > > Linda > > > > I tried going to www.cdnusers.org <http://www.cdnusers.org> <http://www.cdnusers.org> , registered and > > then logged on. I went > > to Forums -> Silicon-package-board -> Shared > > code-Skill. There I saw > > discussions but no skill codes. Where did I go > > wrong? > > > > Daniel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:37 AM > > To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on > > free-standing vias > > > > Doug, > > > > We have a PCB SKILL forum on the newly launched > > Cadence user community > > website where you can upload your skill routine for > > all to see. > > > > you will need to register to post the code. > > > > The site is found at www.cdnusers.org <http://www.cdnusers.org> <http://www.cdnusers.org> . You can > > register, wait a bit for > > your authorization code, login, then click on the > > "Forums" tab in the > > upper navigation bar. > > > > > > Linda > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > > Behalf Of Douglas Stanley > > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:32 AM > > To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on > > free-standing vias > > > > My method doesn't really solve the problem, but it > > makes it easy to deal > > with. I wrote a small SKILL routine that allows you > > to select any via > > and change the via's net. > > > > I works by clicking on a via (single select, window, > > or temp group) and > > then clicking on any shape, pin, or cline. The via > > then takes on the net > > of the shape/pin/cline you selected. Works like a > > champ. It's 30 lines > > of code. > > > > > > > > Douglas G. Stanley > > Broadcom Corporation > > (949) 926-5889 > > dstanley@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dstanley@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:dstanley@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > > Behalf Of > > Michael.Catrambone@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Michael.Catrambone@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:Michael.Catrambone@xxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:55 AM > > To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Retaining nets on > > free-standing vias > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I deal with this all the time.. The best way I found > > to handle it was to > > define a small static shape on top of the via with > > the net name attached > > to it. This shape is defined a little larger than > > the via geometry on > > the top side of the PCB and whenever I move the via > > I make sure to > > select the shape as well. > > > > Kind of a pain but it gets me past the problem. > > Maybe someone else has > > a better way of handling this. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > "Daniel So" <danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> @freelists.org <mailto:danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx%3E@freelists.org> <mailto:danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx%3E@freelists.org> > > on 03/02/2006 > > 11:43:43 AM > > > > Please respond to icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > Sent by: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > To: <icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > cc: > > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Retaining nets on > > free-standing vias > > > > > > Hi Everyone > > > > > > > > Please excuse me if this is an old subject. > > > > > > > > I have thru-hole vias connected to a gnd plane on > > the top layer. There > > is +5v plane on the bottom side of the PCB. There > > are no clines > > connected to the vias so when ever I move the gnd > > plane, the vias are > > now associated to the +5v plane. I now have to move > > the +5v plane before > > moving back the gnd plane if I want to keep these > > vias associated to > > gnd. This is really a bad problem on a multi-layer > > board with different > > planes on different layers and when I have vias that > > I want to keep > > associated to different nets. > > > > > > > > Is there any way to keep the vias associated to the > > original nets > > without connecting clines to them? Cadence did not > > have an answer. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions > > > > Daniel So > > > > email: danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:danielso@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > (See attached file: C.htm) > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > To subscribe/unsubscribe: > > Send a message to > > icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > with a subject of subscribe or unsubscribe > > > > To view the archives of this list please login at > > //www.freelists.org. Our list name is > > icu-pcb-forum or go to > > > === message truncated === > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe/unsubscribe: > Send a message to icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > with a subject of subscribe or unsubscribe > > To view the archives of this list please login at > //www.freelists.org. Our list name is icu-pcb-forum > or go to //www.freelists.org/archives/icu-pcb-forum/ > > Problems or Questions: > Send an email to icu-pcb-forum-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-pcb-forum-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Want to post a job listing ? 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DON'T DO IT HERE! Better yet, join our jobs listing forum. SUBSCRIBE: icu-jobs-forum-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-jobs-forum-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-jobs-forum-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxx> POST: icu-jobs-forum@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:icu-jobs-forum@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:icu-jobs-forum@xxxxxxxxxx> ----------------------------------------------------------- -- Dave Seymour, CID+ Catapult Communications Inc. 800 Perimeter Park Dr, Suite A Morrisville, NC 27560 Direct: (919)653-4249 Main: (919)653-4180 Fax: (919)653-4297 Dave.seymour@xxxxxxxxxxxx -- Dave Seymour, CID+ Catapult Communications Inc. 800 Perimeter Park Dr, Suite A Morrisville, NC 27560 Direct: (919)653-4249 Main: (919)653-4180 Fax: (919)653-4297 Dave.seymour@xxxxxxxxxxxx