[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 11 Mar 2008 ibis-atm meeting

From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:57:15 -0400

Minutes from the 11 Mar 2008 ibis-atm meeting are attached. ARs:

AR: John create document to demonstrate example of extending ICM
AR: Arpad send EMD presentation to Mike L for posting

By the way, minutes for 2/12, 2/26, and 3/4 are posted on the web site
but were not emailed.

Mike

IBIS Macromodel Task Group

Meeting date: 11 Mar 2008

Members (asterisk for those attending):
  Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
  Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
  Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
* David Banas, Xilinx
  Donald Telian, consultant
  Doug White, Cisco Systems
  Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
  Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
  Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
* Ian Dodd
  Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
  John Shields, Mentor Graphics
  Ken Willis, Cadence Design Systems
  Kumar, Cadence Design Systems
  Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
  Luis Boluna, Cisco
* Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
  Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
* Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
  Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
  Paul Fernando, NCSU
  Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
  Ray Comeau, Cadence Design Systems
  Richard Mellitz, Intel
  Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
  Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
  Shangli Wu, Cadence
* Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
  Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
  Steve Pytel, Ansoft
  Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
  Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
* Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
* Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
  Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
  Vuk Borich, Agilent
  Walter Katz, SiSoft

--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:

- No one declared a patent.

-----
Opens:

Mike asked if any recent presentations were available for web posting.

-------------
Review of ARs:

- David Banas report Xilinx position on LTI assumption for SerDes
  - David pinged others recently but nothing to report yet

- AMI BIRD authors meet to prove AMI BIRD can handle Mellitz cases
  - Todd: we need real part data
  - We decided to leave this AR on the list.

- Walter coordinate completion of true diff BIRD draft
  - In progress

- Michael M. draft Eye keywords for true diff BIRD
  - In progress

- Randy draft derating keywords for true diff BIRD
  - Randy and Walter need to meet on this
  - The Tvac keyword is figured out
  - Still in "off-line" phase

- Arpad:  Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
  for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
  parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
  - TBD

- TBD:    Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
  - [External ...] also?
  - TBD

- Arpad:  Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
  - Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do

-------------
New Discussion:

Arpad: How does Walter's proposal fit in with Michael M's ICM proposal?

Todd: Cadence and SiSoft AMI tools are not handling TX GetWave calls the same.
- The AMI spec is a bit ambiguous on this.
- Input could be either:
  1) Inputs are "saturated waveforms", -0.5 to +0.5
  2) Analog time domain waveform, already convolved
- A model should take equalized response from Init() and passes it to GetWave()
- Terry: There is a question on where convolution should be done
- A meeting is needed
  - Todd will contact Ambrish or Zhen
  - Arpad would like to join too
- Arpad: having Init() store data is a "C like" feature
  - Other languages may have trouble with this

Discussion of proposals for connectivity:
- Arpad: Michael M proposal to integrate ICM into IBIS is pretty good
- Main limitation is point-to-point pin to pad connections
- Bob: Walter's EMD proposal looks like a good start
- Michaal M: We need support for more than 2 nodes per signal:
  - Stacked die and older IBIS structures
  - Complicated structures that look like boards
- Randy: Micron is working with stacked die
  - CThis can be done with EBD
- Current EE Times pg 48: stacked die on same substrate
- Bob: had a stacked dice where routing parasitics were a problem
  - EBD was not sufficient to handle this
- Michael M: All limitations of PKG model apply to EBD today
- John: Keywords can be added to make ICM work for stacked die
  - [External Circuit] has node names
  - [External Model] only support models with predefined nodes
  - Don't want nodes to collide with [Pin Mapping] nodes
- Use circuit calls to instantiate models in ICM
  - Todd: We will have a lot of S-param files that way
    - Walter's EMD proposal is more modular
  - Arpad: S-param is not the only way to model it
  - Michael M: We originally did this to allow model subset selection
    - Swathing works for regular structures like most connectors

AR: John create document to demonstrate example of extending ICM
AR: Arpad send EMD presentation to Mike L for posting

Next meeting: 18 Mar 2007 12:00pm PT

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[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 11 Mar 2008 ibis-atm meeting

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