[geocentrism] Re: short exchange on BA on rocketship question
- From: "Robert Bennett" <robert.bennett@xxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:44:44 -0400
Gary,
You might remind tinfoilhead and the other 2 bad astronomers that the
surface density of the Martian atmosphere is about 1 % of Earth's. An easy
way to picture this : it's the same density as the Earth's atmosphere at 75
miles up....
The BAs also are not being consistent with the claim that the Earth's air
blanket is dragged along with the surface boundary
layer, allegedly explaining the doldrums of the tropics (transient
hurricanes notwithstanding).
So it should be on Mars - the relative motion of Martian air(CO2)and the
ground should be nil.
Methinks the talk about a blast of 500 mph wind at the Martian equator is
more like just a lot of hot (thin) air!
Keep the faith - GC, of course -
Robert
-----Original Message-----
Gary L. Shelton
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 1:58 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] short exchange on BA on rocketship question
Dr. Jones, I repeat the short exchange below for you concerning my
question on the entry of a rocketship into a rotating atmosphere.
It seemed to me the original statement by TinFoilHat (which follows
next) that "None of them would be even capable of surviving a landing with a
500MPH crosswind in the first place!" allowed my question. So I asked it.
Two people responded to my query on BA. Van Rijn and Meteora, as I repeat
briefly below, that the spacecraft wouldn't have any problem with that. So
again, Gary Shelton does not know. Thought it was an interesting point.
Did you think?
In geostasis,
Gary Shelton
---------------------------------------
TINFOILHAT WROTE:
Quote:
I'm wondering how Gary (or anyone else using his arguments) can
explain the sucessful landing of the multiple probes we've put on the
surface of Mars. We can see that Mars rotates. From the rate of rotation and
radius of Mars, a quick calculation shows that the surface of mars at the
equator is moving at a speed of over 500 miles per hour, relative to the
planet as a whole, due to its rotation. We know that Mars has an atmosphere.
If that atmosphere did not rotate along with Mars, any point on or near the
equator of mars would feel a constant 500MPH wind blowing it sideways. None
of the multiple probes we have landed on mars has detected this wind. None
of them would be even capable of surviving a landing with a 500MPH crosswind
in the first place! What they have shown us is that the atmosphere of Mars,
though having intermittent local winds and turbulence, is as a whole
rotating at the same speed as the planet Mars, and most likely has been for
quite some time.
We can see from Mars that the fixed-earther's understanding of
the mechanics of a rotating atmosphere is insufficient to describe the real
world.
GARY SHELTON WROTE:
TinFoilHat, thanks for a good point. But it brings up another
question. If, supposing everyone of you is correct on this board that the
earth is indeed rotating as you say, as is Mars, does that mean the
atmosphere is turning at the same angular velocity as the planet it is on?
Like, when you say that the probes to Mars did not encounter 500 mph winds.
I believe you. But in accord with what you say, I assume the atmosphere is
indeed rotating RTTS (relative to the stars) and is generally still but with
localized winds RTTP (relative to the planet), even on Mars, right?
So if that is all true, what is the effect of ENTERING the spinning
atmosphere from outer space on these probes? Would they not necessarily have
to go from the near perfect stillness of space to the spinning violence of
the atmosphere suddenly upon entering it? Would they not encounter the body
of the atmosphere, as a whole, that was turning at horrible rotation rates?
Wouldn't this have to happen at some time for the probe to land on Mars?
Sincerely,
Gary Shelton
VAN RIJN WROTE IN RESPONSE ON BA:
Yes, of course. However, the rotation speed is a modest issue as far as
velocity is concerned. The relative speed difference between the spacecraft
and planet is much more substantial. (And why is this rotation rate
"horrible"?). Anyway, from:
http://space.about.com/cs/nasanews/a/spiritlandingst.htm
Quote:
The lander should come streaking in through the martian atmosphere,
going about 12,000 miles per hour. Given atmospheric friction, the outside
surface of the heat shield will be as hot as the surface of the sun (1,447
degrees Celsius, or 2,637 degrees Fahrenheit), but the rover will be
protected by the heat shield and will stay at about room temperature inside
the lander. The heat shield also aerodynamically acts as the first "brake"
for the spacecraft, slowing Spirit down by thousands of miles per hour.
The spacecraft comes in at a shallow angle to the planet's surface to
increase the time in the upper atmosphere.
Do a google search on "reentry heating" "reentry friction" "heat shield" and
"aerobraking" - this is a standard issue for landing spacecraft.
METEORA WROTE IN RESPONSE ALSO:
They enter the atmosphere at whatever relative speed they have to it. If the
probe is descending with a 5,000 mph (just an example, not necessarily a
realistic speed) horizontal speed in the same direction as the rotation, the
rotation is 500 mph, and the wind is calm, the probe would encounter a 4,500
mph headwind. Probes are designed to withstand that. Remember, too, that the
atmosphere is MUCH thinner where the probe first encounters it. A 5,000 mph
wind at the edge of the atmosphere doesn't provide much resistance. [Edited
to add:] What was meant in the earlier post was that the probe did not find
500 mph winds relative to the planet.
GaryLShelton@xxxxxxxxxxx
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