Philip, if you ever brave the waters, let us know your thread. Sincerely, Gary Shelton Gary, I am never offensive, Stirrer, yes , so it was not me at BA.....If I go there I will be quite openly me.. Perhaps they only ban the really intelligent people.....(sorry no offense intended, Garry but you have been openly admitting your lack of knowledge in some scientific areas, and they are taunting you), whereas I get cheeky as soon as I evaluate the level of my opposition. When they become humble then I will welcome them with the same amount and more. So, Tell me how to join, and I'll test them out..... For now, I am reading up on Sungenis and his universal Mass. I am attracted to this theory, but not to the weak way he puts up his arguments. He seems to avoid the well put points of his opponents. All my life I have found among my peers in the technical and scientific community, jealousy, envy, ambition/advancement (at any cost), desire for income at any cost, (perhaps the worst), secret inferiority that drives them to put down any competition they perceive as a threat to their position et al..... Naturally these will rise to positions, like politicians, at the top, and will propagate anything, like the nuclear winter, greenhouse hoax, ozone hole lie, dangerous pharmaceuticals, ad infinitum. without principle just for the money or the glory. And these are todays teachers of our youth. Now I am not saying that Sungenis or Neville, are of this crowd, but it is a difficult task to remain uncontaminated by universal error. If Neville, and Sungenis had delved into the physicals of science, such as the likes of Faraday and Tesla did, and less of the mathmatical maze, that Einstein and Maxwell did, though these men had a good basic physical understanding of physical reality, then perhaps they would be able to argue reality far better than I ever could. No offense Neville, but you seem to have never bothered to look into Electromagnetic radiation in physical space, and its practical applications. That is just one example. Sungenis likewise. This is not a criticism, just a practical reality of todays world of specialisation. When I was an apprentice for the Electrical fitter and mechanic trade back in 48, In addition to several others, we did three subjects, Electrical theory, (all of physics) Applied Electricity, the practical mathmatical explanation of it "in the wire so to speak) and Electrical Trade work. Designing it Making it and diagnosing and repairing it. Its not done like that today. An electrician is a wireman. Universities produce designed drones, who are taught what to think rather than how to think. And so we get fanatical followers of the errors such as I mentioned above, the Ozone hole being the most contemptuous of true science. Modern science is corrupt, and universal error pervades. "For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 2Tim.4." What an amazing prophecy. Philip.