[geocentrism] Re: engrossing
- From: "Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:28:43 -0500
Right.
So it's a good thing God told us who He'd make infallible on matters of
faith and morals.
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Robert Bennett [mailto:robert.bennett@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:35 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: engrossing
I can be only fallible or infallible
I state that I am fallible.
But that means I can be in error, including in my statement above.
So I could be infallible, when I say I am fallible.
http://www.catholic-defense.com/dominus.htm
DOMINUS IESUS
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
DECLARATION
ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY
OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH
...Furthermore, the salvific action of Jesus Christ, with and through
his Spirit, extends beyond the visible boundaries of the Church to all
humanity. Speaking of the paschal mystery, in which Christ even now
associates the believer to himself in a living manner in the Spirit and
gives him the hope of resurrection, the Council states: "All this holds
true not only for Christians but also for all men of good will in whose
hearts grace is active invisibly. For since Christ died for all, and
since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is
divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility
of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery".
........Hence, the connection is clear between the salvific mystery of
the Incarnate Word and that of the Spirit, who actualizes the salvific
efficacy of the Son made man in the lives of all people, called by God
to a single goal, both those who historically preceded the Word made
man, and those who live after his coming in history: the Spirit of the
Father, bestowed abundantly by the Son, is the animator of all (cf. Jn
3:34
...........There is only one salvific economy of the One and Triune God,
realized in the mystery of the incarnation, death, and resurrection of
the Son of God, actualized with the cooperation of the Holy Spirit, and
extended in its salvific value to all humanity and to the entire
universe: "No one, therefore, can enter into communion with God except
through Christ, by the working of the Holy Spirit".41
.....In the New Testament, the universal salvific will of God is closely
connected to the sole mediation of Christ: "[God] desires all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ,
who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6).
........From the beginning, the community of believers has recognized in
Jesus a salvific value such that he alone, as Son of God made man,
crucified and risen, by the mission received from the Father and in the
power of the Holy Spirit, bestows revelation (cf. Mt 11:27) and divine
life (cf. Jn 1:12; 5:25-26; 17:2) to all humanity and to every person.
..... Second Vatican Council teaches: "The Word of God, through whom all
things were made, was made flesh, so that as perfect man he could save
all men and sum up all things in himself.
......these separated Churches and communities as such, though we
believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of
significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit
of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which
derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth
entrusted to the Catholic Church".
....Likewise, one may not separate the kingdom [0f God] from the Church.
It is true that the Church is not an end unto herself, since she is
ordered toward the kingdom of God, of which she is the seed, sign and
instrument
.....Above all else, it must be firmly believed that "the Church, a
pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the
mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which
is the Church. ......This doctrine must not be set against the universal
salvific will of God (cf. 1 Tim 2:4); "it is necessary to keep these two
truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for
all mankind and the necessity of the Church for this salvation".
......For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church,
"salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while
having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them
formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is
accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes
from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by
the Holy Spirit";81 it has a relationship with the Church, which
"according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of
the Son and the Holy Spirit".
...... With respect to the way in which the salvific grace of God -
which is always given by means of Christ in the Spirit and has a
mysterious relationship to the Church - comes to individual
non-Christians, the Second Vatican Council limited itself to the
statement that God bestows it "in ways known to himself".83 ......
However, from what has been stated above about the mediation of Jesus
Christ and the "unique and special relationship"84 which the Church has
with the kingdom of God among men - which in substance is the universal
kingdom of Christ the Saviour - it is clear that it would be contrary to
the faith to consider the Church as one way of salvation alongside those
constituted by the other religions, seen as complementary to the Church
or substantially equivalent to her, even if these are said to be
converging with the Church toward the eschatological kingdom of God.
........One cannot attribute to these, however, a divine origin or an ex
opere operato salvific efficacy, which is proper to the Christian
sacraments.88 Furthermore, it cannot be overlooked that other rituals,
insofar as they depend on superstitions or other errors (cf. 1 Cor
10:20-21), constitute an obstacle to salvation.89
22. With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that
the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all
humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31).90 This truth of faith does not lessen the
sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but
at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of
indifferentism "characterized by a religious relativism which leads to
the belief that 'one religion is as good as another'".91 If it is true
that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is
also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient
situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness
of the means of salvation.92 However, "all the children of the Church
should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not
from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to
respond in thought, word, and deed to that grace, not only shall they
not be saved, but they shall be more severely judged".93 One understands
then that, following the Lord's command (cf. Mt 28:19-20) and as a
requirement of her love for all people, the Church "proclaims and is in
duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth,
and the life (Jn 14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to
himself (cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious
life".94
......."Indeed, God 'desires all men to be saved and come to the
knowledge of the truth' (1 Tim 2:4); that is, God wills the salvation of
everyone through the knowledge of the truth. Salvation is found in the
truth. Those who obey the promptings of the Spirit of truth are already
on the way of salvation. But the Church, to whom this truth has been
entrusted, must go out to meet their desire, so as to bring them the
truth. Because she believes in God's universal plan of salvation, the
Church must be missionary".
......
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience of June 16, 2000,
granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith, with sure knowledge and by his apostolic
authority, ratified and confirmed this Declaration, adopted in Plenary
Session and ordered its publication.
Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith, August 6, 2000, the Feast of the Transfiguration of the Lord.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
............
If Jesus is God, and He left us the Catholic Church as His instrument of
salvation on earth, then we cannot of ourselves create some other means
of salvation than the one God gave us. In other words, we can't say to
God: "Thanks for your plan, but I'll do it my own way." What Vatican
II had to say on the subject was that some have a saving communion with
the Church even if they don't have an intellectual understanding of
such. In other words, they are members of the Church, albeit in an
imperfect way, but are not within the visible confines of the Church.
Vatican II said that if a person is, through no fault of their own,
ignorant of the fact that the Catholic Church is the true Church, such a
person may attain salvation although they are in an impoverished
situation. A person who knows the Catholic Church is true and refuses
to embrace the Catholic faith would be accountable for the refusal of
God's plan of salvation.
In short, God doesn't hold us accountable for what we are innocently
ignorant of. He will hold us accountable if we know and refuse, or
purposely choose to deny, the light given us and remain in ignorance.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp
.....Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no
difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists,
going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged,
baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.
Pax Christi semper,
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Niemann, Nicholas
K.
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:57 AM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: engrossing
Robert,
Will you tell us what is the other "way to salvation", and tell
us if this is your opinion or if you are speaking without the
possibility of error, and if so, how you know that you are infallible on
the topic.
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Robert Bennett [mailto:robert.bennett@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:25 AM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: engrossing
Well, we will miss the daily epistles of Phillip to the
geocentrists....
The confusion here is rooted in not distinguishing the Church
Christ founded, which has the fullness of salvific truth, but not an
exclusive right to it.......from the kingdom of God, as described in NT
parables.
The Catholic Church, because it is one, holy, catholic and
apostolic, because it has the seven sacraments to bestow grace on its
members, because Jesus is its head, is the best, but not only, way to
salvation. The Church is a mix of saints and sinners, like the rest of
mankind. Who is saint and who is sinner? ....well, that changes daily.
Here comes everybody!
Why does the Catholic church stir up such aggressive resistance
from the world, when it seeks nothing that the world offers? Why the
obstinate and fanatic crusade by evolutionists and relativists and
abortionists and modernists to impose their secular science and
amorality on all its members?
Why the strident response in this "geocentric?" forum to those
who believe they have found the truth and embrace it?
Because we all have an intellect that always seeks the Truth and
a will that seeks the Good, with a conscience that attempts to resolve
the two when conflicted.
Herein is the conflict: We seek our own lifestyle - a life of
comfort here on earth. But life is not a reward - it's a test, a test
of fidelity and humility, of childlike innocence and obedience to
righteous divine authority.
Unless you become like little children, you CANNOT ENTER THE
KINGDOM OF GOD.
When our ever-active conscience detects a threat to our
lifestyle, we react instinctively to eliminate the challenge. As long
as the Church teaches the message above, it will be seen as a threat by
our conscience, so the Church must be suppressed or eliminated from our
vision.
Let the responses show where the truth lies.
Pax Christi,
Robert
.
-----Original Message-----
From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Philip
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 1:34 AM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] engrossing
I cant get out of it..... Its too engrossing ..Nick
Allen Ja Neville...
However in these coming three days I'm out of my house
and a vagabond . with less access to you all.
I have my life of science in a book called Diary of a
Mad professor..
I have decided to release to the world so that none can
patent it one of what is to my mind a very practical idea which makes
fun of modern slipstreaming, and abolishes the need for it, and will
bring the electric car back into focus .
Tomorrow.
Phil
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